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Old 05-09-2009, 04:22 PM   #586
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thats just an idea i came up with for stronger gun control, it doesnt have to be exactly like that, but i think there should be some form of training and a profeciency level needed to own a firearm.

i think that is reasonable (the training).
I am not saying it is unreasonable.

I just know how the NRA and politics works,
anything that is seen as limiting in anyway, gun ownership is fought tooth and nail and labled 'uncostitutional'.
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Old 05-09-2009, 04:30 PM   #587
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I am not saying it is unreasonable.

I just know how the NRA and politics works,
anything that is seen as limiting in anyway, gun ownership is fought tooth and nail and labled 'uncostitutional'.
very true.

this shouldnt be about being unconstitutional and keeping law-abiding citizens from owning guns, it should be about making sure people know how to handle them and make sure they arent going to shoot themselves or someone else by mistake and that they arent a criminal or a psychopath.
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Old 05-09-2009, 04:30 PM   #588
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Originally Posted by bigjohn2441 View Post
thats just an idea i came up with for stronger gun control, it doesnt have to be exactly like that, but i think there should be some form of training and a profeciency level needed to own a firearm.

i think that is reasonable (the training).
I think all of that is very reasonable.

The discussion of the 20/20 episode begins on this page and continues for a few: MERGED--> all Gun Control discussion

The classroom scenario that Hyper so strongly objects to was only part of the episode. The entire thing was really interesting, and somewhat frightening. But getting back to the classroom thing, the gist of it was to show how people with varying gun experience (from very little to considerable experience) react in a panic situation, and the results were not good. After that segment, they had police officers commenting that having guns for the purpose of personal protection in the hands of individuals who are not undergoing constant training is a very bad idea. They mentioned the many hours it takes them to get their skill level up, and also the hours they need to spend in order to maintain that skill. I'd take their word for it long before I'd listen to Hyper, but I was wondering how you see it, if you agree with them or not.
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Old 05-09-2009, 04:37 PM   #589
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Based on your description of that id have to agree with the officers.

if you have a gun to use for personal protection, what good is it if you dont know how to use it? or cant shoot for shit? not only are you endangering yourself, but possibly bystanders or family (in the case of your home).

thats just common sense.

and speaking from personal experience, it takes MANY hours to get decent with a handgun.
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Old 05-09-2009, 04:44 PM   #590
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Based on your description of that id have to agree with the officers.

if you have a gun to use for personal protection, what good is it if you dont know how to use it? or cant shoot for shit? not only are you endangering yourself, but possibly bystanders or family (in the case of your home).

thats just common sense.
That's exactly the point they were trying to make. In all of their "tests," I think only one person got a shot off that hit the shooter, and that was a glancing shot, nothing that would have stopped the shooter, probably. Several others weren't even able to unholster their guns. Others would have shot bystanders, or left themselves in the open while unholstering and pointing their weapons, and they would have easily been shot before they got a shot off, themselves. They would have had a better chance at survival and not shooting innocent bystanders by simply taking cover.

Are you okay with private citizens carrying hand guns in public? That freaks me the hell out.
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Old 05-09-2009, 05:00 PM   #591
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Are you okay with private citizens carrying hand guns in public? That freaks me the hell out.
not if they have proper training and arent criminals or psychos.

i do it all the time. of course i'm a federal officer so thats a little different.
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Old 05-09-2009, 05:05 PM   #592
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or psychos.
That's tough to test for...
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Old 05-09-2009, 05:14 PM   #593
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this shouldnt be about being unconstitutional and keeping law-abiding citizens from owning guns, it should be about making sure people know how to handle them and make sure they arent going to shoot themselves or someone else by mistake and that they arent a criminal or a psychopath.
Agreed.
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Old 05-17-2009, 03:19 PM   #594
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There is no legitimate reason for private citizens to own one let alone multiple guns. None. None.

Most people who own a gun for 'protection' don't know how to use it and are far more like to accidentally injure themselves/family/friends than to successfully protect themselves or anyone else.

I don't understand, and I never will understand, people that like to go hunting and shoot/kill innocent animals for sport/entertainment. They're certainly not doing it to feed themselves because they could go to any supermarket and buy their meat. And no, I'm not a vegetarian, so you might think that makes me a hypocrite - however, take into consideration that a)animals killed to be sold as food aren't killed with guns that much, there are other ways, b)it's a job for the people that do that, not a hobby, and c)people who hunt shoot lots of animals that humans don't eat regularly anyway.

I also don't understand, and I will never understand, parents who take their young children to firing ranges. If you're a parent, and you allow your eight year old to pick up a gun at one of those places and shoot it, my gut reaction - and yes this is probably a little over the top - is that your child should be taken from you and put in foster care. Accidental deaths have occurred because of such poor judgement exercised by parents in these types of scenarios. I realize that's extreme but I just can't fathom putting a gun in your child's hands and thinking it's ok.

The assault weapons ban should be brought back and never let go again. The gun show loophole should be fixed(the whole idea of a gun show in the first place seems kind of sick to me). Gun control as a whole should be tightened up ten-fold.

In my ideal world, only cops and military personnel would be allowed to legally own guns. There is NO legitimate reason for private citizens to own guns. The 2nd amendment is by far the most unnecessary in the bill of rights.
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Old 05-17-2009, 03:40 PM   #595
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The 2nd amendment is by far the most unnecessary in the bill of rights.

The problem is, once you start tinkering with the Bill of Rights, when does it stop?
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Old 05-17-2009, 03:46 PM   #596
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Emancipation

Suffrage
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Old 05-17-2009, 03:56 PM   #597
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Yeah we can work on ridding ourselves of Free Speech next. Oppose that? Don't worry, the cops and military will have guns.
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Old 05-17-2009, 04:04 PM   #598
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i am not too heavily invested in this argument

but, I will call out bad arguments


there were very high concentrations of guns in the public's hands in both Iraq and Afghanistan, guns were openly sold in bazaars in the streets.

Well, all the guns did not prevent dictators, like Saddam Hussien and the Taliban from ruling with an iron hand.
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Old 05-17-2009, 04:23 PM   #599
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I have never, ever bought the "I have/need a gun for protection from the criminals/the state" argument. When it comes down to it, I'm certain that for the vast majority of rabid gun supporters, they own guns because they think they are fun, shooting them is fun, whatever. If they gave me this as their justification, I'd still disagree with the current state of gun laws, but I'd respect their honesty.
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Old 05-17-2009, 04:37 PM   #600
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The main reason the Second amendment exist is because the founders wanted "the people" to be armed so they would have the power to protect themselves from tyrants like King George III, and any future tyrants that may pop up.
Taking power reserved for a sovereign and giving it "to the people".
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