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Old 05-09-2009, 02:10 PM   #571
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Could it be all the piling on?


The guy has a contrarian point of view.

One that actually leads to some discussion in here.

Do some people find that intolerable?


edit to add

This discussion board only works when the discussion is directed at "the ideas, opinions and beliefs expressed" and not at individual posters.

Yoland's response was very good, she addressed the 'idea or belief' put forth.
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Old 05-09-2009, 02:24 PM   #572
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John, you say that but you just got finished writing:




After some of us told you our personal experience, you still proceed under your assumption that we don't know how we would feel if we were put in that situation.

You have become very assumptive and defensive the last couple of days and you've lost your normal calm collective reasonable means to discussing this subject. I have actually found you to be one of the few reasonable pro-gun debaters in FYM, but you come off a little rattled the last two days.

maybe cause im on my 13th workday in a row and still got at least 6 more to go

idk, sometimes it's hard to explain yourself properly in words. not to mention im a little outnumbered, as the other gun supporters on here dont seem to bring much to the table

although i think our views on the subject arent that much different.
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Old 05-09-2009, 02:40 PM   #573
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I understand, and agree...
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Old 05-09-2009, 02:44 PM   #574
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John, in one of your earlier posts, you mentioned that you are in favour of gun control and more training for gun users (I didn't just imagine that, right?). Could you expand on that, and talk about what you'd like to see in place? Thanks. Did you see the 20/20 stuff I posted earlier? What do you think of reaction times in laypeople during crisis situations? Potentially dangerous, or nothing to worry about? In fact, I'm not sure if you've read the entire thread, but feel free to respond to any of my earlier questions in it.

I'm still following this thread. I dropped out because there really wasn't much willingness to discuss, till you arrived.
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Old 05-09-2009, 03:22 PM   #575
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That wasn't an experiment, it was a setup.
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Old 05-09-2009, 03:35 PM   #576
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First off ill say i think it should be up to the individual states to make their own gun laws. Some states have lesser gun violence and guns are used more for hunting and sport. Strict federal policies would make it the same for everyone. Should states like North Dakota or Montana, where gun murders are extremely low and id imagine most of the guns are used for hunting, have the same gun controls as a state with high gun violence, like California?

As for the training, i think it's reasonable that if you have to pass a test to drive a car, you should have to pass a test of some kind to have an instrument to kill someone, if we are talking about handguns or "assault rifles" . As for hunters there should be a mandatory hunters safety, which i think some places have already.

I dont think any dipshit should be allowed to go out and buy a gun without knowing how to handle it.

As far as what the test would include i think it should be similar to a drivers test. An evaluation to see if you are suitable to own a firearm. Background investigation (which they have now), maybe some sort of mental evaluation to make sure you arent getting it to just go blow a bunch of people away. If you pass the background then there should be a training course which would teach safety, proper handling, and profeciency. Then there would be a practical test in which you would have to demonstrate proper handling, safety, and show you can actually shoot accuratley by getting a certain score.

If you pass you'd get a card similiar to a driver license, which you would take to the gun dealer when you go to buy a gun. And to ensure you keep up with it, the cards would expire every so often and you'd have to re-qualify.

They could have different licenses or different training for different guns you wanted to get or they type of thing you wanted to do with it. For example if you were getting a shotgun for home defense, youd get training with the shotgun and a test on that. There could be different levels of licenses ranging from just being able to get hunting rifles to you can get anything you want. The more types of guns you want to get, the more training and tests you have to take.

I think the gun owners would like that because it's another day of shooting. And if you arent a criminal and are smart enough and responsible enough to own a gun than it should be no problem and if you are very familiar with guns than the test should be a breeze

This might seem obsurd to some, but i think something like this would be a good start. The next step would be getting the illegal guns out of the hands of the criminals. Because it doesnt make sense to make stricter controls on law-abiding citizens without working on getting guns obtained illegally away from the criminals. Maybe you'd have to have the license to get ammunition, so the criminals couldnt just waltz into walmart and get ammo.

Vintage, ill have to look over to see your previous posts. I cant watch videos or anything on this computer im on now.
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Old 05-09-2009, 03:42 PM   #577
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That wasn't an experiment, it was a setup.
What?
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Old 05-09-2009, 03:43 PM   #578
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What?

20/20's "classroom shooting"
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Old 05-09-2009, 03:45 PM   #579
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Oh, OK, how was it a "set up"?
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Old 05-09-2009, 03:48 PM   #580
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They took people with little to no firearms experience (unlike most CCW holders) and put them against trained experts (unlike most school shooters). It was designed to fail, as if getting shot while trying to dial 911 is so much better.
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Old 05-09-2009, 03:59 PM   #581
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They took people with little to no firearms experience (unlike most CCW holders) and put them against trained experts (unlike most school shooters). It was designed to fail, as if getting shot while trying to dial 911 is so much better.
Paranoid much?

I think you missed the point. What is the minimum training one needs to carry?

Now some of the profiles of these school shooters have been people obsessed with guns and had quite a bit of experience.
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Old 05-09-2009, 04:06 PM   #582
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Originally Posted by bigjohn2441 View Post
First off ill say i think it should be up to the individual states to make their own gun laws. Some states have lesser gun violence and guns are used more for hunting and sport. Strict federal policies would make it the same for everyone. Should states like North Dakota or Montana, where gun murders are extremely low and id imagine most of the guns are used for hunting, have the same gun controls as a state with high gun violence, like California?

As for the training, i think it's reasonable that if you have to pass a test to drive a car, you should have to pass a test of some kind to have an instrument to kill someone, if we are talking about handguns or "assault rifles" . As for hunters there should be a mandatory hunters safety, which i think some places have already.

I dont think any dipshit should be allowed to go out and buy a gun without knowing how to handle it.

As far as what the test would include i think it should be similar to a drivers test. An evaluation to see if you are suitable to own a firearm. Background investigation (which they have now), maybe some sort of mental evaluation to make sure you arent getting it to just go blow a bunch of people away. If you pass the background then there should be a training course which would teach safety, proper handling, and profeciency. Then there would be a practical test in which you would have to demonstrate proper handling, safety, and show you can actually shoot accuratley by getting a certain score.

If you pass you'd get a card similiar to a driver license, which you would take to the gun dealer when you go to buy a gun. And to ensure you keep up with it, the cards would expire every so often and you'd have to re-qualify.

They could have different licenses or different training for different guns you wanted to get or they type of thing you wanted to do with it. For example if you were getting a shotgun for home defense, youd get training with the shotgun and a test on that. There could be different levels of licenses ranging from just being able to get hunting rifles to you can get anything you want. The more types of guns you want to get, the more training and tests you have to take.

I think the gun owners would like that because it's another day of shooting. And if you arent a criminal and are smart enough and responsible enough to own a gun than it should be no problem and if you are very familiar with guns than the test should be a breeze

This might seem obsurd to some, but i think something like this would be a good start. The next step would be getting the illegal guns out of the hands of the criminals. Because it doesnt make sense to make stricter controls on law-abiding citizens without working on getting guns obtained illegally away from the criminals.

Vintage, ill have to look over to see your previous posts. I cant watch videos or anything on this computer im on now.
I do not believe I would support all of your guide lines.



And most 2nd Amendment advocates would say your views are anti-2nd amendment.

Most of the anti-gun people (even on this board) should be happy to have a politician with your views in office.
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Old 05-09-2009, 04:11 PM   #583
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oh im not anti-2nd amendment, i think we established that

it's an extremely complex issue. if you believe in the right to bear arms, yet support stronger gun control, how do you compromise between the two?

thats just an idea i came up with for stronger gun control, it doesnt have to be exactly like that, but i think there should be some form of training and a profeciency level needed to own a firearm.

i think that is reasonable (the training).
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Old 05-09-2009, 04:11 PM   #584
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Paranoid much?

I think you missed the point. What is the minimum training one needs to carry?

Now some of the profiles of these school shooters have been people obsessed with guns and had quite a bit of experience.
I'm not the paranoid one that fears guns.
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Old 05-09-2009, 04:21 PM   #585
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Neither am I, and I answer questions...
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