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Old 04-06-2009, 09:31 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by financeguy View Post
These events will continue to happen until guns are much more tightly regulated in the US, that is the reality.

I disagree.

That is not a reality.

Germany had a school shooting a few weeks ago.
Gun laws in Germany are very strict.

In the US last week a man killed his two sisters with a knife.

These things happen because of evil people bent on doing evil.

Whether they wield a gun, a knife, bomb, or stone....
they will vent their evil.
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Old 04-06-2009, 09:37 PM   #32
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Whether they wield a gun, a knife, bomb, or stone....
they will vent their evil.
I can outrun a knife or dodge a stone and bombs aren't legal... what does that leave?
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Old 04-06-2009, 09:37 PM   #33
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the guy with the knife could have killed a lot more people with an AK-47.


How many cops would the guys in Pittsburgh or Oakland have killed with knifes.

or even the guy in NY, that took out 14 people?
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Old 04-06-2009, 09:47 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by the iron horse View Post
i disagree.

That is not a reality.

Germany had a school shooting a few weeks ago.
Gun laws in germany are very strict.

In the us last week a man killed his two sisters with a knife.

These things happen because of evil people bent on doing evil.

Whether they wield a gun, a knife, bomb, or stone....
They will vent their evil.

ignorant comment.............we cannot blame "evil" anymore. There's psychological reasoning for these acts.
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Old 04-06-2009, 10:12 PM   #35
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If there are no records then how do you know 2 occured?


And how many illegal killings?

Actually that 254 is a little skewed since "self defense" is pretty easy to claim when it happens on your property.
My newspaper was nice enough to report it, they don't get factored in on any crime statistics reports.

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ignorant comment.............we cannot blame "evil" anymore. There's psychological reasoning for these acts.
Fine if you can't blame a knife you can't blame a gun.



http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/...n4222185.shtml




Home » World
Deadly Stabbing Spree Kills 5 Chinese Cops
Revenge-Minded Man Sets Fire Outside Station, Then Storms Inside Armed With Only A Knife

Comments Comments 10

BEIJING, July 1, 2008
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(AP) A man armed with a knife stormed a police station in Shanghai on Tuesday, stabbing officers inside and killing at least five, authorities said.

The Shanghai Public Security Bureau said in a news release that a 28-year-old man with the surname Yang set a fire outside the building's gate and then rushed inside and began attacking officers.

Five officers died after being taken to a hospital, while four other police officers and a security guard were hurt, the statement said. Some had chest wounds and others had bloodied faces, the official Xinhua News Agency reported, citing a witness with the surname Yi.

Yang, who is from Beijing and unemployed, said he was seeking revenge after officers at the station in Shanghai's Zhabei district investigated him last year for allegedly stealing bicycles, police said.

Yang was taken into custody at the station.

It was not clear how the attacker managed to stab so many police officers and why he was not detained after setting a fire outside the building. Though Chinese police are permitted to carry guns, the attack took place in an office building and it was possible officers there were not armed.

A woman at the Zhabei district station referred questions to the Shanghai Public Security Bureau. Phones rang unanswered in the bureau's propaganda department.

Violent street crime is rare in China, where private gun ownership is virtually banned.
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Old 04-07-2009, 09:05 AM   #36
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if every law-abiding citizen had a firearm, was allowed to carry, and had extensive training with it, what do you think the crime rate would look like?

on the other side, what if guns were completely outlawed and only police and criminals had them? cause i think it's true that gun control only stops law-abiding citizens from getting guns. not to say they should give every asshole that walks into a place a gun, there has to be some kind of background check. criminals will always be able to get illegal guns. i work in st. thomas and they have extremely strict gun control there and people are still shooting each other left and right there. there was just 2 shootings this past weekend. meanwhile i, even as law enforcement, want to bring my own personal firearm down there to carry and it is extremely difficult.
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Old 04-07-2009, 09:20 AM   #37
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if every law-abiding citizen had a firearm, was allowed to carry, and had extensive training with it, what do you think the crime rate would look like?
About the same, probably slightly higher...

Crimes of passions and moments of weakness would go up.
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on the other side, what if guns were completely outlawed and only police and criminals had them? cause i think it's true that gun control only stops law-abiding citizens from getting guns.
I agree that there is no way to take guns out of criminal's hands overnight. But I do think there are ways to eliminate certain guns and slowly get them out of the hands of criminals. The majority of black market guns are manufactured by legitimate manufacturers in the states, eventually this blackmarket can be controlled. A control on ammunition in the meantime can slow down gun related crimes. I think it has to be a combination of the two, and knowing that it will take time.

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not to say they should give every asshole that walks into a place a gun, there has to be some kind of background check. criminals will always be able to get illegal guns.
Unfortunately these background checks don't check mental stability...
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Old 04-07-2009, 10:42 AM   #38
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guns certainly make it easier to kill people.
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Old 04-07-2009, 12:57 PM   #39
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^Well said. I do believe that the Second Amendment does lend itself to say that American citizens have a right to own a firearm if they so choose. Personally, I don't see the necessity for it, unless one is in law enforcement or another profession where a gun would likely be required. This is a personal opinion. One of my closest friends owns multiple guns because he hunts and likes to go to the shooting range as a hobby. He knows how I feel about this, and he respects it. He like many people, is a responsible gun owner who keeps his guns locked up and unloaded except when they're being used. However, he also supports stricter gun control laws just as I do. He doesn't see a dichotomy between owning a gun(s) for sport and also supporting laws that will make it harder for people like gang members in Detroit, about 20 minutes from our safe suburb, to get an assault rifle and do a drive-by that kills an innocent 7 year old girl in her bedroom, or laws that would've made it more difficult for Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold to shoot up Columbine High School, Seung-Hui Cho to carry out the massacre at Virginia Tech, or Jiverly Wong to murder all those people in Binghamton, New York last week. Obviously, it's not right to take away every single responsible, stable, honest citizen's gun(s) because of these situations. These people and the countless others who have committed murder or caused injuries with a gun have deeper issues that needed to be addressed that could've prevented these tragedies. However, stricter gun control laws would've made it more difficult for these people to purchase the guns they used to commit the terrible crimes they did. It is partially the fault of organizations such as the NRA, one of the biggest lobbies in Washington D.C., that push for less government regulation and control of the gun industry that foster and indirectly help people like these carry out these terrible incidents. These same gun rights advocates in government often will blame violence in music, movies, TV, etc. for causing these situations. However, a gun from a scene in a movie can't bust through a screen and find it's way into someone's hand. Yet, a gun from a local store that these pro-gun individuals not only support but believe should make it easier for them to buy their guns,can sell a gun to a disturbed person who will take it into a mall and randomly shoot 30 people. The fault doesn't lie in "liberal" media, nor does it lie with responsible American citizens who follow every rule and precaution with the guns they own. However, much of the fault does lie with those American citizens and organizations who support making gun control laws more lax because they're more concerned with their own false idea of personal "rights" than they are with the common good.
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Old 04-07-2009, 09:33 PM   #40
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Gun Violence in the USA, Obama needs to step up!

Five dead in US murder-suicide: reports

A gunman shot dead his wife, daughter and two other people before killing himself, reports said on Tuesday, the latest in a series of recent murder-suicides that have shocked America.

The body of Kevin Garner, 45, was found on Tuesday near the home he formerly shared with his estranged wife in Morgan County, Alabama.

Law enforcement agents said Garner had earlier gunned down his wife, his daughter, a sister and her nephew in the town of Greenhill, reports said.

The killings came ahead of a divorce hearing between Garner and his wife Tammy due to take place on Wednesday.

Garner's sister had been due to testify on behalf of his estranged wife at the hearing, the Times Daily newspaper reported on its website.

The United States has been rocked by several fatal mass shootings in the past three weeks.

Last weekend a man in Washington state shot dead his five children before killing himself after discovering his wife was leaving him.

On Saturday three police officers were killed by a 23-year-old man at his home in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.

The attack came a day after a recently unemployed man stormed an immigrant services centre where he had been learning English in Binghamton, New York state, and went on a murderous rampage, killing 13 people before taking his own life.

On March 29, a heavily armed gunman shot dead eight people at a North Carolina nursing home, days after six people were killed in a murder-suicide in an upscale neighbourhood in northern California's Silicon Valley.

And on March 10, an unemployed man killed his mother, grandmother and eight others on a vicious shooting rampage in Alabama.


Ok I'm back from me lovely 2 month jaunt around europe, and am catching up on all the news, and this story just really stood out to me.


My questions are this.

What do you think would happen to the United States if guns were banned and you had to hand them all in, or be fined if caught with one?

Do you honestly believe carrying a gun for protection makes for a safer society?

Because this problem is BULLSHIT. There wouldn't even BE a problem if there wasn't a gun involved. Of course you can kill someone in other ways but nothing is as easy as pointing a gun and pulling the trigger.

The biggest question of all.

Have you lost your respect for human life? Do you think anyone has the right to take another persons life? Because really, no one does. You don't get to decide.
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Old 04-07-2009, 10:12 PM   #41
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mmm, i think ill stay out of this one
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Old 04-08-2009, 12:12 AM   #42
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HyperU2,


are you defending something? You're not even making sound argument.

Make sense
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Old 04-08-2009, 05:39 PM   #43
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HyperU2,


are you defending something? You're not even making sound argument.

Make sense

The Second Amendment. Would it help you if I typed in bold?


There are plenty of "gun free" countries to go live in.
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Old 04-08-2009, 05:59 PM   #44
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i cant hold out any longer on this

Quote:
Originally Posted by dazzlingamy View Post

My questions are this.

What do you think would happen to the United States if guns were banned and you had to hand them all in, or be fined if caught with one?
will never happen, but i imagine there might be civil war. if not, there would be lots of problems with people that refuse to give up their guns.

Quote:
Do you honestly believe carrying a gun for protection makes for a safer society?
Yes, it makes me feel safer. Maybe if one of the 13 people at the immigration center had a gun they couldve stopped that nutcase from slaughtering everyone. Do you honestly believe law-abiding citizens shouldn't be allowed to have a gun to protect themselves and their family? And if so, why not?

Quote:
Because this problem is BULLSHIT. There wouldn't even BE a problem if there wasn't a gun involved. Of course you can kill someone in other ways but nothing is as easy as pointing a gun and pulling the trigger.
Let me tell you a little secret: if somebody wants to kill somebody, they will find a way to do it. if that crazy Chinese guy couldn't get his hands on a gun, he could've just as easily walked into that immigration center with a machete or something and started hacking people up, either that or make a bomb and obliterate the place. Also, i work in St thomas virgin islands where they have probably the strictest gun control in the united states. yet, people still get ahold of illegal guns and are offing eachother left and right. there were 2 fatal shootings just this last weekend. and this is on an ISLAND were there arent even any gun stores. so there is a perfect example of how gun control is ineffective at stopping gun violence.

Quote:
The biggest question of all.

Have you lost your respect for human life? Do you think anyone has the right to take another persons life? Because really, no one does. You don't get to decide.
Not too sure what this means. Anyone who has a gun or is pro-gun is for killing people?
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Old 04-08-2009, 06:01 PM   #45
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Seems like a lot of people would feel better if people were slaughtered with knives instead of guns. lol Maybe it feels better to ignore the human factor.
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