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Old 04-15-2009, 06:26 PM   #211
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Well I've already talked about a lot of it...

First and foremost put the assault rifle ban back into effect.

Secondly do not allow private individuals to carry on themselves.

I think once you eliminate the legal demand of automatic and assault rifles and limit the manufacturing to military and police only you will eventually eliminate the supply to the black market. And by also controlling the ammo.



And then eventually I would like to see handguns gone, but I haven't seen a completely thoughtout plan yet.

It would be a slow process, this we know.


So despite Assault rifles and concealed carry permits resulting in very little of the overall murders this sounds like a good plan? That's why we pro gun folks feel that attacking one thing is a step towards banning all.
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Old 04-15-2009, 06:29 PM   #212
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Hard to say, I mean Finland and Switzerland have a ton of privately owned guns too.
It shouldn't be hard for you to say, you're the one that made the claim.

Here, 27% of all homes own guns. The rest are free to as well, provided they don't have prior criminal activity in their backgrounds.

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So despite Assault rifles and concealed carry permits resulting in very little of the overall murders this sounds like a good plan? That's why we pro gun folks feel that attacking one thing is a step towards banning all.
Paranoia.
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Old 04-15-2009, 06:32 PM   #213
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It shouldn't be hard for you to say, you're the one that made the claim.

Here, 27% of all homes own guns. The rest are free to as well, provided they don't have prior criminal activity in their backgrounds.



Paranoia.

So if Finland and Switzerland have a lot of guns and low homicide rates, I guess Americans just like killing each other, with or without guns.

Paranoia is exactly why people want those things banned.
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Old 04-15-2009, 06:42 PM   #214
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So if Finland and Switzerland have a lot of guns and low homicide rates, I guess Americans just like killing each other, with or without guns.

Paranoia is exactly why people want those things banned.
No, that is overly simplified reasoning, and the more I read of your "reasoning," the more I tend to think that you really are just an overly paranoid gun nut who will use any rationalization to continue to keep your dearly held freedom to bear arms, despite the damage it's doing to your society.

Stricter gun controls = a greater chance that the guns will actually end up being owned by the people who can legally and responsibly own them, and not bought on impulse to commit crimes or to end up on the black market in huge numbers for criminals to easily buy.

I don't think we're the paranoid ones, we're the ones with statistics and facts to back up what we're saying. Our concerns are based on reality.
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Old 04-15-2009, 06:48 PM   #215
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Ahh gun nut. I figured it wouldn't take long for name calling. I've stated plenty of statistics. Particularly about rifles and concealed carry. The blind don't want to see that. Your opinion doesn't even matter though.
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Old 04-15-2009, 06:53 PM   #216
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So despite Assault rifles and concealed carry permits resulting in very little of the overall murders this sounds like a good plan?
The more lives we save the better.

Do you know how many lives were saved by concealed carry permits last year?


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That's why we pro gun folks feel that attacking one thing is a step towards banning all.
So you are all paranoid?

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Old 04-15-2009, 06:56 PM   #217
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The more lives we save the better.

Do you know how many lives were saved by concealed carry permits last year?




So you are all paranoid?


I know there were 159 handguns used in justifiable homicides last year, hard to tell who was carrying or home at the time. But firing a shot isn't the only way that concealed carry protects someone, just pulling a gun can end a situation. You're all as paranoid as we are.
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Old 04-15-2009, 06:58 PM   #218
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whoa, im without internet for a couple days and look what i missed!
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Old 04-15-2009, 07:05 PM   #219
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Ahh gun nut. I figured it wouldn't take long for name calling.
Yeah. It took me 15 pages to state what I see. I think I deserve props for that, actually.

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I've stated plenty of statistics. Particularly about rifles and concealed carry. The blind don't want to see that.
Your Florida concealed weapons number? That's fairly meaningless in the context of this discussion. How many murders were committed by those who had their permits revoked? Whatever number it is, it's too many. Plus, that's not even taking into account the number of guns that are out there and being used in homicides that are unregistered, but are available to criminals/the black market mostly due to your open gun culture and easy availability of weapons down there.

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Your opinion doesn't even matter though.
Because I live in another country, my opinion doesn't matter in here? Funny, all kinds of people in FYM comment about international matters, and they've always been welcome. So yeah, I think I'll just keep commenting anyway.
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Old 04-15-2009, 07:06 PM   #220
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Hard to say, I mean Finland and Switzerland have a ton of privately owned guns too.
They don't have high handgun ownership rates, and that's the type used in 80% of our gun homicides. Based on 1990s data which is all I've seen, Switzerland is the only one of those 'other countries' with double-digit household handgun ownership rates, and then only 12% compared to our 28.5% (all the others were below 7% on handgun ownership). Furthermore, only military officers, medical and postal personnel may keep handguns in Switzerland, and like Finland they have compulsory military service, which obviously makes a difference in skills with and attitudes towards guns. (By contrast, several of those countries have double-digit hunting/military-issue rifle ownership rates...Norway, Canada, Finland, Switzerland, Australia...though still considerably lower than ours in every case).
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Old 04-15-2009, 07:07 PM   #221
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Yeah. It took me 15 pages to state what I see. I think I deserve props for that, actually.



Your Florida concealed weapons number? That's fairly meaningless in the context of this discussion. How many murders were committed by those who had their permits revoked? Whatever number it is, it's too many. Plus, that's not even taking into account the number of guns that are out there and being used in homicides that are unregistered, but are available to criminals/the black market mostly due to your open gun culture and easy availability of weapons down there.



Because I live in another country, my opinion doesn't matter in here? Funny, all kinds of people in FYM comment about international matters, and they've always been welcome. So yeah, I think I'll just keep commenting anyway.

It can matter in here all you'd like. It won't have any effect on gun control though.

1.4 million issued and 166 revoked for firearms crimes (type not stated)? Oh yeah, that makes no difference. Criminals don't care about concealed carry permits or gun laws. Or laws against murder for that matter.
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Old 04-15-2009, 07:10 PM   #222
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They don't have high handgun ownership rates, and that's the type used in 80% of our gun homicides. Based on 1990s data which is all I've seen, Switzerland is the only one of those 'other countries' with double-digit household handgun ownership rates, and then only 12% compared to our 28.5% (all the others were below 7% on handgun ownership). Furthermore, only military officers, medical and postal personnel may keep handguns in Switzerland, and like Finland they have compulsory military service, which obviously makes a difference in skills with and attitudes towards guns. By contrast, several of those countries have double-digit hunting/military-issue rifle ownership rates...Norway, Canada, Finland, Switzerland, Australia (though still considerably lower than ours in every case).
That's a really good point, yolland. Nothing that I saw (I didn't search all that carefully, though) broke down the numbers here between rifles and handguns, but I have to assume that the vast majority here are rifles. Especially since the only use for handguns here, outside of crime, of course, is shooting ranges, and you have to get special permits to transfer them, etc. Makes it not worth the effort to anyone but the most hardcore shooting range enthusiasts.
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Old 04-15-2009, 07:13 PM   #223
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1.4 million issued and 166 revoked for firearms crimes (type not stated)? Oh yeah, that makes no difference. Criminals don't care about concealed carry permits or gun laws. Or laws against murder for that matter.
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Plus, that's not even taking into account the number of guns that are out there and being used in homicides that are unregistered, but are available to criminals/the black market mostly due to your open gun culture and easy availability of weapons down there.
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Old 04-15-2009, 07:14 PM   #224
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I just want to be clear that you want to ban all guns, legal and illegal right?
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Old 04-15-2009, 07:17 PM   #225
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I just want to be clear that you want to ban all guns, legal and illegal right?
No, I never said that. I don't believe that anyone here did.

In fact, people have made suggestions as to what they'd like to see, people other than me, and you've openly dismissed them without even discussing it, or offering counter suggestions, or reasons why you feel that it should stay the same, other than vague rumblings about protecting yourself. You seem to have no interest in discussing, or realistically considering societal problems, other than maintaining the status quo.
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