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Old 04-15-2009, 05:03 PM   #196
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Oh, Irvine, you have so much to learn about guns and Canada. We have two seasons - snow and heat and humidity. Where handguns would be most useful is during the dark winter months. That's when the stir-craziness and paranoia starts to set in.


a typical Canadian summer home:

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Old 04-15-2009, 05:31 PM   #197
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i don't think anyone is blaming responsible gun owners for committing gun crimes.

i am asking, however, and this is just me, that you acknowledge that the right you have to your guns is the direct cause of most of the murders in the United States and is the reason why our murder rate is so much higher than everyone else's in the Western world. i want you to acknowledge the fact that Americans are no more innately violent than anyone else, they just have an easier time getting handguns, and then i want to know that you think that this is all worth it.
Our murder rate is higher because of gangs not guns.
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Old 04-15-2009, 05:33 PM   #198
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Our murder rate is higher because of gangs not guns.
We have gangs here, too.
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Old 04-15-2009, 05:33 PM   #199
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Our murder rate is higher because of gangs not guns.


or because of gangs with guns.
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Old 04-15-2009, 05:36 PM   #200
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or because of gangs with guns.
They won't be unarmed after legal gun owners are.
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Old 04-15-2009, 05:38 PM   #201
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They won't be unarmed after legal gun owners are.


you're dodging the issue.

guns make criminals more deadly. this has nothing to do with legal gun owners. no one is talking about legal gun owners. get over yourself.

the issue is that the ease of arming yourself in the United States -- whether you are a criminal or not -- drastically increases our murder rate in comparison to other countries who have similar social problems but do not have the murder rate that we do.
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Old 04-15-2009, 05:39 PM   #202
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They won't be unarmed after legal gun owners are.

They probably wouldn't be armed in the first place if some kind of control occured decades ago.

Where do you think the blackmarket supply comes from?
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Old 04-15-2009, 05:40 PM   #203
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Oh I see, I thought by wanting to eliminate all guns you meant those of legal gun owners too.
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Old 04-15-2009, 05:45 PM   #204
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Oh I see, I thought by wanting to eliminate all guns you meant those of legal gun owners too.
Who are you talking to?

I'm not sure I've seen anyone say they want to eliminate all guns, yet you keep bringing it up...

That damn strawman just keeps hanging around here... maybe he's looking for a brain.
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Old 04-15-2009, 05:46 PM   #205
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So what sort of control are you looking for?
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Old 04-15-2009, 06:01 PM   #206
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So what sort of control are you looking for?

like what they have in Canada.
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Old 04-15-2009, 06:05 PM   #207
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Immigrating to Canada
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Old 04-15-2009, 06:14 PM   #208
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It's not the majority but without that 45% our numbers equal other countries, despite all of our guns.
Which "other countries" did you have in mind?

As VP pointed out, gangs are far from a uniquely American problem. But, for the sake of argument, even if you were to take our homicide rate (5.6) and subtract 45% (yielding 3.08) on the assumption that my 'gang-related' calculation was correct, and on the pretense that it's a "fairer" comparison--that's still *more than double* the homicide rates of Canada, Australia, Germany, Poland, the Netherlands, Austria, Italy, Ireland, Norway, Denmark, Belgium and Portugal. And still considerably higher than the UK's 2.03 rate, Sweden's 2.39, Finland's 2.75 and Switzerland's 2.94.
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Old 04-15-2009, 06:23 PM   #209
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So what sort of control are you looking for?
Well I've already talked about a lot of it...

First and foremost put the assault rifle ban back into effect.

Secondly do not allow private individuals to carry on themselves.

I think once you eliminate the legal demand of automatic and assault rifles and limit the manufacturing to military and police only you will eventually eliminate the supply to the black market. And by also controlling the ammo.



And then eventually I would like to see handguns gone, but I haven't seen a completely thoughtout plan yet.

It would be a slow process, this we know.
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Old 04-15-2009, 06:25 PM   #210
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Which "other countries" did you have in mind?

As VP pointed out, gangs are far from a uniquely American problem. But, for the sake of argument, even if you were to take our homicide rate (5.6) and subtract 45% (yielding 3.08) on the assumption that my 'gang-related' calculation was correct, and on the pretense that it's a "fairer" comparison--that's still *more than double* the homicide rates of Canada, Australia, Germany, Poland, the Netherlands, Austria, Italy, Ireland, Norway, Denmark, Belgium and Portugal. And still considerably higher than the UK's 2.03 rate, Sweden's 2.39, Finland's 2.75 and Switzerland's 2.94.
Hard to say, I mean Finland and Switzerland have a ton of privately owned guns too.
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