MERGED--> all Gun Control discussion

[Irvine511]

sorry, I'll back to my human-rights prison up here with our legalized pot and gay marriages...

you see what happens when your freedom to shoot gays and hippies is taken away by gay hippie activist judges?

you become a Canadian slave who feels free to walk the streets of TRONO at night without fear of being shot in a mugging-gone-wrong or an errant bullet sailing through the window of you household.

it must be awful. perhaps we can invade after we invade Cuba and arm all 30 million of you. and then you'll know what freedom is like.

 

[bigjohn2441]

you guys are absolutely hysterical.

i wasnt compairing americas freedom to other countries, or trying to quantify freedom. i was just giving an example to bring forth the IDEA that guns may symbolize america's ability to defend our freedoms from tyranny and oppression, a luxury that some countries dont have.

but, like Bush said, the constitution is only a piece of paper.

 

[Irvine511]

guns take away freedoms when you get shot with one.

 

[bigjohn2441]

guns take away freedoms when you get shot with one.

ok, ill play narrow-minded too.

you take away my 2nd amendment rights by banning guns.

there, where are we now?

 

[BVS]

there, where are we now?

I have the freedom to live you, have the freedom to bitch...

 

[bigjohn2441]

we have the freedom to shoot people who bitch

oops, wrong forum

check out this PA pro-gun forum:

http://forum.pafoa.org/

should give all you anti-gun people a laugh

 

[Irvine511]

ok, ill play narrow-minded too.

you take away my 2nd amendment rights by banning guns.

there, where are we now?

you've lost (or just had restricted) one right. the dead person has no rights, because they're dead. your right just killed them.

if that's worth it to you, that's fine. just own up to it.

 

[BVS]

check out this PA pro-gun forum:

Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association Discussion Forum

should give all you anti-gun people a laugh

First of all, I'm not anti-gun, I think some guns should be out of the hands of everyone and that there does need to be a limit as where and when guns are carried.

Secondly, that site is scary.

I glimpsed through a few post and found a lot of paranoia and some people who just shouldn't be using a gun EVER.

 

[bigjohn2441]

thats Pennsylvania for you.

i go on there every once in a while when i need a good chuckle

 

[HyperU2]

You guys come up with a pill that makes good and bad guns go away, I'll wait.

 

[BVS]

Yeah, because that's the crux of the argument

 

[HyperU2]

I want to keep guns, you want them gone. Crux of argument.

 

[BVS]

Wrong again... But no matter how many times I tell you that it won't sink in.

 

[HyperU2]

Ok So you just want rid of assault rifles, despite them not being used in homicides often. So what gun do you want rid of next? It's easy to see why banning certain types leads to all.

 

[BVS]

I thought you said you didn't live in fear?

To me it's not that hard to take a look at assault rifles and ask what true purpose do they serve? A true hunter wouldn't need them, someone purely wanting self defense wouldn't need them... but you don't care about those things, so honestly none of this discussion matters. You have no principles as to why you want guns, your entertainment just happens to be legal right now...

 

[HyperU2]

If they're not a threat, what's the big deal? Yeah, for now. My pesky little Constitutional Right that you hope to do away with?

 

[bigjohn2441]

do you know how hard it is to get your hands on an "assault weapon", that is a true full-automatic rifle LEGALLY?

as it is it's pretty hard for your average asshole citizen to try and walk into a store and buy one. i believe the weapon has to be made before around 1985 or something. next, you have to have your local sheriff or LEO chief approve your request. you have to provide paperwork and have to prove a need to have the gun. also, you have to pay a few hundred dollar fee and fill out all kinds of paper work to ATF and they have to approve it. then you have to get it transferred to you by a class III dealer.

at least thats the way it is in PA, one of the most leniant states on guns.

i have to argee that there isnt any practical reason for having a full-automatic rifle / sub-machinegun whatever, other than the fact that they are fun as hell to shoot.

they'll be good when the zombies come though

 

[anitram]

My pesky little Constitutional Right that you hope to do away with?

A state reserves the right to put limits on your constitutional rights so long as they are justifiable in a free and democratic society. This is one of the underpinnings of constitutional law yet you and a lot of others behave as if it doesn't exist.

The state limits our constitutional rights in a hundred different ways on a daily basis.

 

[BVS]

If they're not a threat, what's the big deal? Yeah, for now. My pesky little Constitutional Right that you hope to do away with?

You still don't get it...

 

[BVS]

do you know how hard it is to get your hands on an "assault weapon", that is a true full-automatic rifle LEGALLY?

as it is it's pretty hard for your average asshole citizen to try and walk into a store and buy one. i believe the weapon has to be made before around 1985 or something. next, you have to have your local sheriff or LEO chief approve your request. you have to provide paperwork and have to prove a need to have the gun. also, you have to pay a few hundred dollar fee and fill out all kinds of paper work to ATF and they have to approve it. then you have to get it transferred to you by a class III dealer.

at least thats the way it is in PA, one of the most leniant states on guns.

i have to argee that there isnt any practical reason for having a full-automatic rifle / sub-machinegun whatever, other than the fact that they are fun as hell to shoot.

they'll be good when the zombies come though

There are a lot of other factors that define an assault rifle other than fully automatic, and it's not very difficult to buy one here at all...

 

[HyperU2]

There are a lot of other factors that define an assault rifle other than fully automatic, and it's not very difficult to buy one here at all...

And you still don't get that they're not as big a threat as you fear.

A state reserves the right to put limits on your constitutional rights so long as they are justifiable in a free and democratic society. This is one of the underpinnings of constitutional law yet you and a lot of others behave as if it doesn't exist.

The state limits our constitutional rights in a hundred different ways on a daily basis.

I do wish they'd get rid of that pesky thing called Religion.

 

[bigjohn2441]

There are a lot of other factors that define an assault rifle other than fully automatic, and it's not very difficult to buy one here at all...

ok then, what is your definition of an "assault rifle", other than ones that are full-auto?

i was under the impression that "assault rifles" were only ones that had the capability to fire full-auto, like military rifles.

some interesting statistics on "assault weapons":

http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcassaul.html

 

[BVS]

ok then, what is your definition of an "assault rifle", other than ones that are full-auto?

i was under the impression that "assault rifles" were only ones that had the capability to fire full-auto, like military rifles.

No there is a list that defines what an assault rifle is according to the now defunct ban, I posted it earlier in this thread. And oddly enough I never got an answer to why any law abiding citizen would need any of these things.

Oh, except for "shits and giggles".

By former U.S. law the legal term assault weapon included certain specific semi-automatic firearm models by name (e.g., Colt AR-15, TEC-9, all non-automatic AK-47s, and Uzis) and other semi-automatic firearms because they possess a minimum set of features from the following list of features:


A semi-automatic AK-47 rifle.
An Intratec TEC-DC9 with 32-round magazine; a semi-automatic pistol formerly classified as an Assault Weapon under Federal Law.

Semi-automatic rifles able to accept detachable magazines and two or more of the following:

Folding or telescoping stock
Pistol grip
Bayonet mount
Flash suppressor, or threaded barrel designed to accommodate one
Grenade launcher (more precisely, a muzzle device which enables the launching or firing of rifle grenades)

Semi-automatic pistols with detachable magazines and two or more of the following:

Magazine that attaches outside the pistol grip
Threaded barrel to attach barrel extender, flash suppressor, handgrip, or suppressor
Barrel shroud that can be used as a hand-hold
Unloaded weight of 50 oz (1.4 kg) or more
A semi-automatic version of an automatic firearm

Semi-automatic shotguns with two or more of the following:

Folding or telescoping stock
Pistol grip
Fixed capacity of more than 5 rounds
Detachable magazine

 

[bigjohn2441]

so by that definition a firearm is determined to be an assault weapon based on the way it looks and the different accessories it could have, and NOTHING to do with magazine capacity or caliber of the bullet, which i would think would be the more important factor.

interesting.

 

[HyperU2]

Yeah, that which looks scary should be banned. Despite statistics stating otherwise.


On a side note I just got home from an amazing gun show. Most of you would have shit your pants.

 

[bigjohn2441]

yup, im sitting here at work right now with my "assault weapon" pistol on my hip.

 

[HyperU2]

Weapons don't assault, criminals do.

 

[maycocksean]

do you know how hard it is to get your hands on an "assault weapon", that is a true full-automatic rifle LEGALLY?

Semi-automatic assault weapons are pretty easy to get ahold of though, right? At least that's been my experience.

i have to argee that there isnt any practical reason for having a full-automatic rifle / sub-machinegun whatever, other than the fact that they are fun as hell to shoot.

This is true.

You guys are so funny, you assume that anyone who supports stricter gun control laws must be some weepy liberals who can't understand the pure joy of shooting the hell out of your 11th grade Spanish textbook with a semi-auto AR-15 at the range in the backwoods of Florida.

I spent a lot of time around guns in high school and have shot just about every kind of gun you can imagine. One of my friends was a big gun enthusiast and was always adding a new toy to his collection. We used to out to to this place in North Florida and shoot at targets--cans and such of course, but also his ex-girlfriend's teddy bear and the aforementioned Spanish book. And yes it was fun. And yes, I'd still enjoy it today. But I STILL believe that highly restricted access to guns (especially handguns) is better for our country and does not contradict the spirit of the 2nd Amendment. Some of this has to do with some of the experiences I had with my friends--all good people who were always pretty careful in their handling of guns. These guys were not criminals in the least. But my buddy almost became one when he nearly shot some guys at a party because he thought (wrongly) that they had raped his girlfriend. And that's not the only time that me or friends of mine came close do doing real, irreparable damage with guns.

Let's face it, one of the things that make guns so fun is the sense of power they give you. And when you have a cowboy mentality on top of that, that becomes inordinately risky in my opinion.

 

[BVS]

so by that definition a firearm is determined to be an assault weapon based on the way it looks

What on that list is defined by looks?

and the different accessories it could have, and NOTHING to do with magazine capacity or caliber of the bullet, which i would think would be the more important factor.

Did you read the list? Magazine capacity is definately part of the definition.

 

[HyperU2]

What on that list is defined by looks?

Folding or telescoping stock
Pistol grip
Bayonet mount
Flash suppressor