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Old 04-14-2009, 04:43 PM   #166
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Criminals killing other criminals is a whole other aspect. It's probably 45% of our murder rate.

maybe we should give them more guns so they kill off the other criminals.
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Old 04-14-2009, 07:31 PM   #167
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People want to ban guns because of shooting sprees, when it's the gang bangers doing the most homicides. People that will continue to have guns and kill each other after we're all disarmed. No, that's what I'd call a pretty good ballpark figure. (hence the probably) Nearly every inner city homicide in my general area is drug or turf related. And the inner cities are where the majority of our killings occur.

I agree with you HyperU2,

The most gun related crimes in the US occur in the cities with the strictest gun laws and the most gang and drug problems. In countries with total bans, like the UK and Australia, gun crimes have increased.

I live in a rural area where all my neighbors have guns. We use them for hunting and varmits attacking the chicken house.

And copperhead or rattlesnakes snakes in the barn.
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Old 04-14-2009, 07:38 PM   #168
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I agree with you HyperU2,

The most gun related crimes in the US occur in the cities with the strictest gun laws and the most gang and drug problems. In countries with total bans, like the UK and Australia, gun crimes have increased.

I live in a rural area where all my neighbors have guns. We use them for hunting and varmits attacking the chicken house.

And copperhead or rattlesnakes snakes in the barn.
Yes let's ignore all the obvious factors and facts.

Let's see, of course more densely populated areas will have more violence.

Of course stricter gun laws aren't going to make that much of a difference when 15 miles away you can cross a city border and get a gun at the local Walmart.

The truth is out there.

Listen.
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Old 04-14-2009, 07:48 PM   #169
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Yes let's ignore all the obvious factors and facts.

Let's see, of course more densely populated areas will have more violence.

Of course stricter gun laws aren't going to make that much of a difference when 15 miles away you can cross a city border and get a gun at the local Walmart.

The truth is out there.

Listen.



"Let's see, of course more densely populated areas will have more violence."


It's not the numbers, it's the lack of morality.
What is right and what is wrong.
That's the problem.
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Old 04-14-2009, 08:21 PM   #170
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I agree with you HyperU2,

The most gun related crimes in the US occur in the cities with the strictest gun laws and the most gang and drug problems. In countries with total bans, like the UK and Australia, gun crimes have increased.
The murder rate in the UK and Australia is still way lower than the US, surely?

Ya think it might be the guns? Just conceivably?


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I live in a rural area where all my neighbors have guns. We use them for hunting and varmits attacking the chicken house.

And copperhead or rattlesnakes snakes in the barn.
I tried to explain this to you before. Your rural values, although indeed admirable, just aren't relevant in big cities. The basement carpark in my apartment complex frequently gets broken into by local yobs trying to burglarise cars. What if they had guns?
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Old 04-14-2009, 08:29 PM   #171
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28 gun crimes committed in UK every day - Telegraph
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Old 04-14-2009, 08:32 PM   #172
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Is this proportionately higher or lower than the number of gun crimes committed in the US every day?

It is either one or the other. Which is it?
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Old 04-14-2009, 08:36 PM   #173
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Re: gang-related homicides--

Based on DoJ data, for the period 1976-2005, gang-related homicides accounted for 69.3% of large-city homicides, 13.1% of small-city homicides,16.9% of suburban homicides, and 0.7% of rural homicides (I'm guessing they're using the Census Bureau urbanicity categories there). For that same period, 57.3% of all homicides occurred in large cities, 11.5% in small cities, 21.0% in suburban areas, and 10.2% in rural areas.

So...that works out to, what, 44.8% of all US homicides for 1976-2005 being gang-related? (If someone could check my math here that'd be great, as I'm severely sleep-deprived at the moment and was setting my equations up on autopilot.) While that probably would make it the largest homicide 'circumstance' category as defined by the DoJ, it still wouldn't be the majority of homicides.
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Old 04-14-2009, 09:14 PM   #174
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Is this proportionately higher or lower than the number of gun crimes committed in the US every day?
Much, much, much lower. In 2005, the most recent year for which I could easily find the relevant FBI data, a total of 433,650 gun crimes were committed (gun homicides + other violent crimes involving a gun--rape, robbery, assault). That works out to around 1188 gun crimes per day. And our population is only about 5 times the size of the UK's, so that's nowhere close to proportionately equal.
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Old 04-14-2009, 09:26 PM   #175
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It's not the numbers, it's the lack of morality.
What is right and what is wrong.
That's the problem.

Only if it were that simple...

Then we'd have a simple life and your simple answers would work.
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Old 04-14-2009, 09:29 PM   #176
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Originally Posted by yolland View Post
Re: gang-related homicides--

Based on DoJ data, for the period 1976-2005, gang-related homicides accounted for 69.3% of large-city homicides, 13.1% of small-city homicides,16.9% of suburban homicides, and 0.7% of rural homicides (I'm guessing they're using the Census Bureau urbanicity categories there).
How do they define "gang-related"? Gang on gang, gang on non-gang, stray bullets?
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Old 04-14-2009, 10:08 PM   #177
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How so they define "gang-related"? Gang on gang, gang on non-gang, stray bullets?
The DoJ data was drawing from the FBI's Supplementary Homicide Reports database, which treats the "gang-related circumstance" category as a catchall for any homicide where the local police jurisdiction indicated "gang member involvement." There's no national standardized definition, because most states (and in some cases municipalities) have their own legal definitions of "gang" which their local police departments are required to use.

I'm still uncertain whether my math was correct there.
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Old 04-15-2009, 12:23 AM   #178
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It's not the numbers, it's the lack of morality.


it boggles the mind.
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Old 04-15-2009, 01:56 PM   #179
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Is this proportionately higher or lower than the number of gun crimes committed in the US every day?

It is either one or the other. Which is it?
The UK's was lower even before the ban. Different culture. We've always had gangs.


Quote:
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Re: gang-related homicides--

Based on DoJ data, for the period 1976-2005, gang-related homicides accounted for 69.3% of large-city homicides, 13.1% of small-city homicides,16.9% of suburban homicides, and 0.7% of rural homicides (I'm guessing they're using the Census Bureau urbanicity categories there). For that same period, 57.3% of all homicides occurred in large cities, 11.5% in small cities, 21.0% in suburban areas, and 10.2% in rural areas.

So...that works out to, what, 44.8% of all US homicides for 1976-2005 being gang-related? (If someone could check my math here that'd be great, as I'm severely sleep-deprived at the moment and was setting my equations up on autopilot.) While that probably would make it the largest homicide 'circumstance' category as defined by the DoJ, it still wouldn't be the majority of homicides.

Thanks for backing up my guess work. It's not the majority but without that 45% our numbers equal other countries, despite all of our guns.
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Old 04-15-2009, 02:01 PM   #180
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Thanks for backing up my guess work. It's not the majority but without that 45% our numbers equal other countries, despite all of our guns.


what's the conclusion your guess work has led you to?
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