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Old 08-25-2011, 07:48 PM   #31
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Murder is worse than child rape albeit both are horrible. I like the idea of chemical castration.
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Old 08-25-2011, 08:07 PM   #32
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Capital punishment is the stupidest debate in America, slightly ahead of gay marriage. Abolish the shit out of it.
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Old 08-25-2011, 08:17 PM   #33
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My education touched on pedophilia, from a mental health perspective. One of the most intense, moving things I've ever experienced was hearing a lengthy lecture from a convicted pedophile. I remember listening to it in a detached, clinical manner, and then immediate after, bawling my eyes out.

I certainly don't have all the answers. A few things I did learn though:

-vast numbers of pedophiles were victimized themselves as children
-no one wants to be a pedophile, it's very shameful, and they know it - self-loathing, and all that
-they prey upon kids who they sense are "damaged" in some way, and as such, unlikely to tell (i.e. raise your kids to have healthy self-esteem and not be afraid to tell you anything)
-during the lectures, they discussed treatments. It was so long ago, I can't remember if this came from the guest speaker or the prof, but they did talk about "amnesty" programs for pedophiles, where they can come forward and ask for help without the risk of criminal charges, and about the success that some of these programs have had
-even still, it's true that there is a very high recidivism rate. I don't know the figures offhand for various treatments though. Some (the most intensive) might be better than others
-the guest speaker had been through psychological treatment. He discussed his avoidance of children, and his awareness of danger signs that he might slip back into his old habits, and how it required constant vigilance and willpower not to
-I'm wracking my brain right now to remember if chemical castration was discussed, but I honestly can't remember. I do know though that by the tone of his talk, if that was an alternative, he gladly would have done it

Now that doesn't really explain groups like NAMBLA. Don't think for a second that there are legitimate groups from the mental health community calling for the normalization of this behaviour. There aren't. It will never be normalized. And while one of the most disgusting, repugnant acts I can think of, what I also think of is: what if little Johnny, 6 years old, who is now being molested, for whatever reason, suffers arrested sexuality and becomes a molester himself in 20 years? I guess part of me is always reminded of the child who was driven to that.
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Old 08-25-2011, 08:59 PM   #34
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You say they're all ashamed of it, but I just can't agree. I've shared this story before, but I will forever be scarred/taumatized by one of my fellow employees from a couple years back. He was a child molester and he didn't regret what he had done one bit. He believed the boys he did what he did had "wanted it" and he was proud of himself. He was openly over friendly with children who visited the store and the worst thing of all, and I don't know how this even can happen: once he was off probation he was no longer on the sex offender registry. I checked, multiple times because I was so cold inside knowing he wasn't at least listed. He left after he got off probation and I haven't seen him since.

What was the worst part, of course, was that he was a really nice guy and I got along with him splendidly. It made me so confused and torn up inside, because I wanted to hate him, and I mostly did, but he's still a person, and he treated me kindly and with respect. Though that made I and another employee nervous just the same as he was friendliest with the two of us, and we both happen to look far younger than our age. That's the thing, I could never escape what he did in any conversation, it was always on my mind.

Do I believe a person like that should be put to death? No. But, he doesn't regret a damn thing, and therefore is clearly not rehabilitated and should still be in prison. Most definitely I believe that.
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Old 08-25-2011, 09:23 PM   #35
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You say they're all ashamed of it, but I just can't agree. I've shared this story before, but I will forever be scarred/taumatized by one of my fellow employees from a couple years back. He was a child molester and he didn't regret what he had done one bit. He believed the boys he did what he did had "wanted it" and he was proud of himself. He was openly over friendly with children who visited the store and the worst thing of all, and I don't know how this even can happen: once he was off probation he was no longer on the sex offender registry. I checked, multiple times because I was so cold inside knowing he wasn't at least listed. He left after he got off probation and I haven't seen him since.

What was the worst part, of course, was that he was a really nice guy and I got along with him splendidly. It made me so confused and torn up inside, because I wanted to hate him, and I mostly did, but he's still a person, and he treated me kindly and with respect. Though that made I and another employee nervous just the same as he was friendliest with the two of us, and we both happen to look far younger than our age. That's the thing, I could never escape what he did in any conversation, it was always on my mind.

Do I believe a person like that should be put to death? No. But, he doesn't regret a damn thing, and therefore is clearly not rehabilitated and should still be in prison. Most definitely I believe that.
Like i said, I certainly don't have all the answers, and probably the psychopathologies behind the abusers are just as varied as the abusers themselves...

I will just say though that outward appearance of acceptance of his crime doesn't necessarily mean that he's inwardly at peace with it. People can come up with all kinds of ways to outwardly rationalize their behaviour while still inside knowing it's wrong and repulsive. Sounds like there's a lot of denial going on in that case, and as such, he's probably still very dangerous.

As for removal from the sex offender registry? That's a fucked-up system, and I certainly hope that's not normal.
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Old 08-25-2011, 09:56 PM   #36
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I side with jen and say why is this even being debated? Paedophilia and de-stigmatised being in the same sentence makes me sick. Minor-attracted. give me a fucking break
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Old 08-25-2011, 10:58 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by PhilsFan View Post
Capital punishment is the stupidest debate in America, slightly ahead of gay marriage. Abolish the shit out of it.


You should read some on Amercan history in the 19th century.

Murder was not the norm then.
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Old 08-25-2011, 11:12 PM   #38
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As for removal from the sex offender registry? That's a fucked-up system, and I certainly hope that's not normal.
Because we were talking about this, I looked into it again and he's back on there, so that's good. He's smiling like a jackass in the picture, so that kind of irritated me, but I'm glad to see he's on there.
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Old 08-25-2011, 11:30 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by the iron horse

You should read some on Amercan history in the 19th century.

Murder was not the norm then.
What a ridiculous nonsensical tangent?!
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Old 08-26-2011, 01:08 AM   #40
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Sometimes I'm not sure if Iron Horse believes the shit he posts or if he's just an elaborate troll
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Old 08-26-2011, 01:28 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by VintagePunk View Post
My education touched on pedophilia, from a mental health perspective. One of the most intense, moving things I've ever experienced was hearing a lengthy lecture from a convicted pedophile. I remember listening to it in a detached, clinical manner, and then immediate after, bawling my eyes out.

I certainly don't have all the answers. A few things I did learn though:

-vast numbers of pedophiles were victimized themselves as children
-no one wants to be a pedophile, it's very shameful, and they know it - self-loathing, and all that
-they prey upon kids who they sense are "damaged" in some way, and as such, unlikely to tell (i.e. raise your kids to have healthy self-esteem and not be afraid to tell you anything)
-during the lectures, they discussed treatments. It was so long ago, I can't remember if this came from the guest speaker or the prof, but they did talk about "amnesty" programs for pedophiles, where they can come forward and ask for help without the risk of criminal charges, and about the success that some of these programs have had
-even still, it's true that there is a very high recidivism rate. I don't know the figures offhand for various treatments though. Some (the most intensive) might be better than others
-the guest speaker had been through psychological treatment. He discussed his avoidance of children, and his awareness of danger signs that he might slip back into his old habits, and how it required constant vigilance and willpower not to
-I'm wracking my brain right now to remember if chemical castration was discussed, but I honestly can't remember. I do know though that by the tone of his talk, if that was an alternative, he gladly would have done it

Now that doesn't really explain groups like NAMBLA. Don't think for a second that there are legitimate groups from the mental health community calling for the normalization of this behaviour. There aren't. It will never be normalized. And while one of the most disgusting, repugnant acts I can think of, what I also think of is: what if little Johnny, 6 years old, who is now being molested, for whatever reason, suffers arrested sexuality and becomes a molester himself in 20 years? I guess part of me is always reminded of the child who was driven to that.

I think this is very interesting. I've always believe molesters are just the worst of the worst and should be castrated, locked up, off the streets. But. What if a person had inklings, tiny inklings that were disturbing and needed to be nipped in the bud. That person was far too ashamed to ever speak to a counseller or anyone for fear of being stigmatized and shunned by society. They hold it inside, feeling dirty and evil, not wanting to act out but feeling helpless. The spiral of self hatred continues until they become their own worst nightmare and offend.....

I don't know the solution, it really is just a horrible crime. I'm not sure if people can be rehabilitated at any stage. Hate to think these people could be stopped at an early stage but are left to change and become monsters.
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Old 08-26-2011, 08:31 AM   #42
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You should read some on Amercan history in the 19th century.

Murder was not the norm then.
All the black slaves and the Native Americans who were slaughtered must have imagined it.

Are you not a teacher?? Astounding, honestly.
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Old 08-26-2011, 03:11 PM   #43
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i remember seeing a film where kevin bacon starred as a pedophile who became reformed
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Old 08-26-2011, 03:22 PM   #44
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The Woodcutter. Not easy to watch, but it was a good film.
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Old 08-26-2011, 04:11 PM   #45
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The Woodcutter
Is this a clue as to how he became reformed?
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