Mass Shooting at South Carolina AME Church

[cobl04]

Woah

 

[CosmoKramer]

What kind of weapon did he use? Do we know that detail yet?

The Sandy Hook pig he had an automatic weapon(perhaps more than one).



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[BVS]

https://www.facebook.com/116687955016786/videos/1027868420565397/

Jon pretty much nailed it.

"a racial wound that will not heal but we pretend doesn't exist..."

Sums it up. Some pretend it doesn't exist and others try their hardest to diminish the fact that it exists.


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[Diemen]

Woah

That's kind of like a broken clock being right twice a day. Immediately after that he went on to say it was a lie to claim that this demonstrates that America has a problem with racism.

 

[trojanchick99]

Here's what I don't understand. The same people who preach about American Exceptionalism think that it's citizens are so morally bankrupt that if we tried to ban guns the country would devolve into chaos. They think that we are so inherently inferior to every other developed country, that eliminating guns isn't going to help, because well, we are just so violent. It's sad that they think like this.

What's also telling, is that the number of guns sold under the Obama administration is much, much higher than those sold under W. And yet, according to these same folks, racism isn't a problem.

 

[BEAL]

I would like to understand why this doesn't happen in other countries?

They have the same access to movies, video games, internet (the more Western societies, not those ruled under dictatorship etc).

Yet they don't go around killing people like we do. Yes a country like Norway will have a mass shooting, and a horrific one at that....but the USA will have multiple a year.

We find the excuse "mental illness". Yes a person has to be slightly insane to kill like this guy did, but he was aware of his actions. He had an intention, a motive. A crazy person just runs into the street and shoots. This guy wanted to kill black people.

It's been said over and over in here, and unfortunately to those who lean to the right, they refuse to acknowledge it.

The problem are our lack of regulations on guns.

 

[BVS]

More guns is the answer, Fuckabee says that if someone in that prayer circle had a conceal carry permit this wouldn't have happened. Of course SC doesn't allow conceal carry in Churches, but hey

I guess god told him...


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[anitram]

Rand Paul doesn't think it's about gun control...

“What kind of a person goes in a church and shoots nine people? There’s a sickness in our country. There’s something terribly wrong,” Paul said. “But it isn’t going to be fixed by the government. It’s people straying away. It’s people not understanding where salvation comes from.”

 

[bono_212]

Fucking pathetic, and I'm saying that as a Christian. What a slimy little toad.

 

[Diemen]

You can really tell how desperately out of touch much of the right wing is by their response to this. Governor Haley says she can't understand what leads a person to commit this kind of act, while the stars and bars fly outside the capitol building, and on this racist murderer's car. The NRA and their purchased politicians talk about more guns solving this problem (the lunacy of that stance is astounding to me - because what we really want is for everyone to be packing heat in a house of God).

No one, not one of them, has been able to utter the word racist yet. It's appalling.

 

[bono_212]

It makes me sick.

You know what? If I'm ever the victim of an act of violence, I want to go on record that the reason I wasn't carrying a weapon wasn't that a law said I couldn't, but that I didn't want to carry one.

Believe it or not, I'm not frightened enough by other people to think I need to defend myself from them.

Nor am I ignorant enough to believe that having a gun on my person is going to save me from all of life's troubles.

 

[anitram]

is. Governor Haley says she can't understand what leads a person to commit this kind of act, while the stars and bars fly outside the capitol building, and on this racist murderer's car.

Does she not understand English? I mean the guy explicitly stated what lead him to commit this act (i.e. starting a race war).

 

[trojanchick99]

Exactly. Jon Stewart's take was spot on. Racism is STILL a problem in this country. Racism + Internet + easy access to guns = mass murder. The NRA asshole suggesting that someone else armed would have helped is as bad as blaming the woman who was raped because her skirt was too short.

If the past 6 months haven't reminded America that racism is alive and well, nothing will.

 

[The_Pac_Mule]

especially when you look at the much higher murder rates in states like Connecticut, Vermont, Iowa, and North Dakota, which have outlawed the death penalty.

Vermont also has the most lax gun laws in the country. And gun violence is no problem here.

I know that very few here will share my sentiment, but I like guns. Shooting and marksmanship is fun, and I've built my own custom AR-15. I like feeling like I'm back in the Corps and it helps me blow off steam. I often exercise my right to concealed carry while I'm out and about. Am I particularly worried about my safety? Nope.

I am not a huge fan of the NRA and I do support some modest gun control that will help prevent those who shouldn't have a gun from getting one. I vehemently oppose bans on "assault rifles" (inaccurate term) and extended magazines. Getting a gun is also not as easy as many are claiming, and I get the feeling that none of you have any actual experience with that. I was buying a new hunting rifle last fall from an FFL after I had just moved to a new apartment, and I couldn't purchase because I didn't have enough proof of my place of address (my license had my old address). I had bills from new apartment, but they were not sufficient and I needed help from my landlord to prove my address. They also did a thorough background check.

And none of the proposed gun control legislation would have prevented what happened. He used a regular handgun with no extended magazines or anything else, that was lawfully given to him by his parents. Would making it illegal to give your kid a firearm when they are of legal age to own one have prevented it? Probably not, he would have probably just taken it from them. Blame the parents if you want, (and I do) but the problem here is racism, and (if not this time, in many others) mental illness.

Feel free to attack me now for me being a 'gun lover'

 

[BVS]

Honestly, the right's reaction to this has for the most part made nauseous. I can barely flip through Facebook without seeing some link posted from my friends on the right that doesn't make my skin crawl.

Today the U.S. Flags over the capital are all half mast, except the confederate flag. I know it's state law, but it's very telling.


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[Irvine511]

Vermont also has the most lax gun laws in the country. And gun violence is no problem here.

I know that very few here will share my sentiment, but I like guns. Shooting and marksmanship is fun, and I've built my own custom AR-15. I like feeling like I'm back in the Corps and it helps me blow off steam. I often exercise my right to concealed carry while I'm out and about. Am I particularly worried about my safety? Nope.

I am not a huge fan of the NRA and I do support some modest gun control that will help prevent those who shouldn't have a gun from getting one. I vehemently oppose bans on "assault rifles" (inaccurate term) and extended magazines. Getting a gun is also not as easy as many are claiming, and I get the feeling that none of you have any actual experience with that. I was buying a new hunting rifle last fall from an FFL after I had just moved to a new apartment, and I couldn't purchase because I didn't have enough proof of my place of address (my license had my old address). I had bills from new apartment, but they were not sufficient and I needed help from my landlord to prove my address. They also did a thorough background check.

And none of the proposed gun control legislation would have prevented what happened. He used a regular handgun with no extended magazines or anything else, that was lawfully given to him by his parents. Would making it illegal to give your kid a firearm when they are of legal age to own one have prevented it? Probably not, he would have probably just taken it from them. Blame the parents if you want, (and I do) but the problem here is racism, and (if not this time, in many others) mental illness.

Feel free to attack me now for me being a 'gun lover'

I was talking about the death penalty and how it isn't a deterrent to murder.

We can debate the nuances of gun control, but this isn't about only mental health, it is very much about the widespread availability of guns.

 

[The_Pac_Mule]

I was talking about the death penalty and how it isn't a deterrent to murder.

I know, but you brought up how Vermont has very little violent crime, and I just wanted to make the connection that we also have no gun laws.

 

[Diemen]

Shooting and marksmanship is fun,

Actually, I agree. I've gone target shooting several times with my uncle, and enjoy it. I have several members of my extended family who hunt, and I have no issue with that.

I am not a huge fan of the NRA and I do support some modest gun control that will help prevent those who shouldn't have a gun from getting one.

The problem is that even "some modest gun control" legislation that the vast majority of citizens would approve is practically DOA thanks to the NRA and its overwhelmingly powerful lobby.

And none of the proposed gun control legislation would have prevented what happened. He used a regular handgun with no extended magazines or anything else, that was lawfully given to him by his parents. Would making it illegal to give your kid a firearm when they are of legal age to own one have prevented it? Probably not, he would have probably just taken it from them.

This is the especially maddening part for me. This rush to "well, even if we had better legislation it might not have stopped this, so... why even try? " mentality that takes over Washington/the country any time one of these tragedies occurs. If the deaths of 14 innocent little kids isn't enough to move this country into action on gun control, what is? If the racist assassination of 9 innocent people isn't enough to move this country into action on confronting racism, what is?

 

[The_Pac_Mule]

The problem is that even "some modest gun control" legislation that the vast majority of citizens would approve is practically DOA thanks to the NRA and its overwhelmingly powerful lobby.

Like I said, I'm not big on the NRA for the knee jerk responses to any amount of legislation. But I also acknowledge that without them, there would be bans on those scary looking semi autos and more than ten round mags, which like I said, I oppose and find unconstitutional. So I dunno.

 

[Irvine511]

without them, there would be bans on those scary looking semi autos and more than ten round mags, which like I said, I oppose and find unconstitutional. So I dunno.

setting aside whether or not "a well regulated militia" denotes the right to ownership of said semi autos, what appeals to you about them, and why would you want/need one in your home? what would you be missing if they were unavailable?

 

[Irvine511]

I know, but you brought up how Vermont has very little violent crime, and I just wanted to make the connection that we also have no gun laws.

you also have a very small population and a hunting population that knows how to handle firearms. and very liberal politicians.

 

[dazzledbylight]

Exactly, his face is already plastered all over the media.

This will drive the news for days. Forget that 60 plus people who have been murdered in Baltimore since May. I can't remember the number for Chicago or L.A.

A news leak about pills found on him is not confirmed yet, but I'm guessing he's another Adam Lanza. Red flags all around him, but no one took them seriously.


President (not gonna bring us together) Obama wasted no time in pulling out his race card and pressing his anti-gun agenda.

IH-
Your seeming inability to understand just how much Racism STILL exists in the USA continues to confound me, sometimes.

 

[Irvine511]

We mistake racism for that which is depicted in movies like The Help -- racism is when people are mean to one another because of race. If you smile at a black person today or go home and hug your Mexican maid, it means you are not a racist because you are nice to individuals of a different race than you.

In reality, racism is a system and worldview and such behavior as depicted by Hollywood -- and which seems to be accepted by many conservative politicians -- is merely a symptom.

 

[dazzledbylight]

I'm so fucking angry today. Because of our insane gun culture, this racist scumbag was able to murder 9 innocent people. Because he's a lone white male, we're not allowed to call him a terrorist. Because he was a white male he was able to be taken into custody alive. This country is so fucked up.

Oh, so it's all about bad parenting? So, the difference between us, Australia, The UK, France, Spain, Italy, etc is that Americans just suck at parenting?

No. The difference is that it's easier to get a gun than a driver's license. The difference is that our culture reveres gun ownership like we're still in 1775. It's sick.

given that this was a white nationalist murdering african americans in a church where MLK had preached and was once a stop on the Underground Railroad, combined with the fact that this person has easy access to firearms especially in a southern state, how is this issue not about race and guns?

honestly.

first time ive had a chance to be online since this happened
(no net at home, no working computer either right now)

Thank you both for being here at the outset when I cound not be.

before i read the rest of the thread...

I caught the very beginning of this new late weds night. When they said
"Historic Black Church" I went from possibility of a wider range of people to "uh oh" then I went back to doing some unexpected astonishing art work on my part.

Woke up with the Art work joyfully on my mind. Then turned on my local Publuc radio and WHAM got hit by the full news.

THIS makes me think THAT'S howmy parents felt on seeing the reports on TV when that Afro-American Church was bombed back in ?64 the where the little girls were slaughtered. I was just a bit too young so I was not yet watching the Nightly News back then.


(My parents welcomed all my friends of all "races" in to our home and I was allowed to go visit theirs as well)

AND Just to REMIND people MOST people with Mental Illness are NOT Violent.

EVEN IF he turns out to have a mental illness he's still been Steeped in the Easy Gun Culture and ongoing Racism that still exists in The South [as well as in the The North. Which is where he went to.

 

[dazzledbylight]

Hardly obscure, these flags (and colonial regimes) are quite popular amongst white supremacists I would imagine. All it would take to learn about it is a quick browse through Wikipedia.


In my view, this is first and foremost about white supremacy, the gun issue (whilst still important) is secondary.

thank you Guns a very close 1 & 1/4

 

[dazzledbylight]

He wants to start a civil war. This is what he told someone he personally knows.
Sounds like terrorism based on hate.
Suspect Heard Talking of 'Starting a Civil War'

I belive McVey had read some book on a new civil war that a lot of WHite Supremacists have read

 

[dazzledbylight]

And Fox News turned this into a case of anti-Christian persecution to support their agenda and claimed without evidence that the shooter had to be atheist instead of saying that it was based on racism, which it clearly was.

Also, 10 black people are killed by a white supremacist and you still bring up the murder rate in predominantly black communities out of faux concern? Shame on you.


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I believe John Stewart used to have a segment "is THIS The BottoM Now?"
or something similar

 

[dazzledbylight]

Here's what I don't understand. The same people who preach about American Exceptionalism think that it's citizens are so morally bankrupt that if we tried to ban guns the country would devolve into chaos. They think that we are so inherently inferior to every other developed country, that eliminating guns isn't going to help, because well, we are just so violent. It's sad that they think like this.

What's also telling, is that the number of guns sold under the Obama administration is much, much higher than those sold under W. And yet, according to these same folks, racism isn't a problem.

ANd the threats that the Secret Service have gotten related to Obama has gone sky high since he steeped into office ( and probably before )

 

[dazzledbylight]

You can really tell how desperately out of touch much of the right wing is by their response to this. Governor Haley says she can't understand what leads a person to commit this kind of act, while the stars and bars fly outside the capitol building, and on this racist murderer's car. The NRA and their purchased politicians talk about more guns solving this problem (the lunacy of that stance is astounding to me - because what we really want is for everyone to be packing heat in a house of God).

No one, not one of them, has been able to utter the word racist yet. It's appalling.

yeah thanks

 

[gump]

I have my issues with them, but The Economist was pitch perfect on this.

Charleston massacre: The latest American mass killing | The Economist

The regularity of mass killings breeds familiarity. The rhythms of grief and outrage that accompany them become—for those not directly affected by tragedy—ritualised and then blend into the background noise. That normalisation makes it ever less likely that America's political system will groan into action to take steps to reduce their frequency or deadliness. Those who live in America, or visit it, might do best to regard them the way one regards air pollution in China: an endemic local health hazard which, for deep-rooted cultural, social, economic and political reasons, the country is incapable of addressing. This may, however, be a bit unfair. China seems to be making progress on pollution.

I think many Americans don't realize how completely non-sensical the gun control system (or lack thereof) looks to the rest of the world.