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Old 01-29-2013, 08:46 PM   #556
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Assault Weapon: "Any semiautomatic rifle with a detachable magazine and at least two of the following five items: a folding or telescopic stock; a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon; a bayonet mount; a flash suppressor or threaded barrel (a barrel that can accommodate a flash suppressor); or a grenade launcher."

Other than a grenade launcher, which of those qualities qualifies an "assault weapon" as a weapon of war? Or is banning semi-automatic rifles in general the end goal people here desire?
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Old 01-29-2013, 08:56 PM   #557
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Or is banning semi-automatic rifles in general the end goal people here desire?
I'm pretty sure that's been the consensus here.
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Old 01-29-2013, 09:15 PM   #558
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The only gun in a school belongs in the hands of a school police officer! Anything else is asking for trouble!!!!!
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Old 01-29-2013, 09:21 PM   #559
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I don't believe that a gun ban will deter anyone from a mass killing if that's what they're determined to do; You can build a few pipe bombs and cause a lot of damage. You can blow up a building with fertilizer. But we also shouldn't make it easy for them. Owning a semi automatic rifle "because I want to" and "because I have the right to" is the laziest argument I've ever heard. It completely skirts around the issue. And the argument that they're needed in case the government turns on its people is fucking laughable. The pro gun people are right in that there's a lot of grey area when it comes to gun violence and gun ownership, but I've yet to hear one coherent argument as to why they should own semi automatic weapons
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Old 01-30-2013, 12:28 AM   #560
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Originally Posted by Caleb8844 View Post
Assault Weapon: "Any semiautomatic rifle with a detachable magazine and at least two of the following five items: a folding or telescopic stock; a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon; a bayonet mount; a flash suppressor or threaded barrel (a barrel that can accommodate a flash suppressor); or a grenade launcher."

Other than a grenade launcher, which of those qualities qualifies an "assault weapon" as a weapon of war?
Which ones don't? I grew up around guns and know each and everyone of these modifications.

I've gone through this definition point by point several times, every time I do the NRA types flee from the discussion so I'm not going to waste words this time. Why don't you tell me why you would need any of these qualities for hunting or self defense?
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Old 01-30-2013, 12:54 AM   #561
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Which ones don't? I grew up around guns and know each and everyone of these modifications.

I've gone through this definition point by point several times, every time I do the NRA types flee from the discussion so I'm not going to waste words this time. Why don't you tell me why you would need any of these qualities for hunting or self defense?
I'm certainly no NRA type. I don't have a huge vested interest in how this turns out, honestly. I bring up the definition, because none of those features, it seems to me, would really affect the lethality of the gun in a mass murdering situation. Removing a pistol grip is going to lower death counts? "If only that killer's gun didn't have that bayonet holder!!" ?

It's clear to me that the assault weapons ban is simply a stepping stone to a full semi-automatic weapons ban. I'd simply like people to be honest and say that this is the end goal, and not that banning foldable stocks is the answer.
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Old 01-30-2013, 01:59 AM   #562
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I'm certainly no NRA type. I don't have a huge vested interest in how this turns out, honestly. I bring up the definition, because none of those features, it seems to me, would really affect the lethality of the gun in a mass murdering situation. Removing a pistol grip is going to lower death counts? "If only that killer's gun didn't have that bayonet holder!!" ?

It's clear to me that the assault weapons ban is simply a stepping stone to a full semi-automatic weapons ban. I'd simply like people to be honest and say that this is the end goal, and not that banning foldable stocks is the answer.
Personally I see no reason to ban all semi-auto weapons.

But since you don't seem to understand the reason behind the definition let me ask you this, in hunting or self-defense can you explain who would need:

a 30 round clip?
a reason to conceal a rifle? Hence a folding stock.
a reason to conceal the flame put off by fire? I don't think the deer of robber are going to be effected.
a pistol grip on a rifle? There's a reason it's called a PISTOL grip. Rifles were not designed this way, the only reason for it, is rapid fire.


So, can you think of any legitimate reasons? Before you start seeing that it's "clear" the reasons you may want to understand the definition.
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Old 01-30-2013, 09:01 AM   #563
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Personally I see no reason to ban all semi-auto weapons.

But since you don't seem to understand the reason behind the definition let me ask you this, in hunting or self-defense can you explain who would need:

a 30 round clip?
a reason to conceal a rifle? Hence a folding stock.
a reason to conceal the flame put off by fire? I don't think the deer of robber are going to be effected.
a pistol grip on a rifle? There's a reason it's called a PISTOL grip. Rifles were not designed this way, the only reason for it, is rapid fire.

So, can you think of any legitimate reasons? Before you start seeing that it's "clear" the reasons you may want to understand the definition.
I'm with you on the high cap mags to an extent.

As for your other questions, here is what a rudimentary google search turned up:

Folding stocks: according to legal gun owners, these make guns far more easily stored and transported. If concealing is one's main goal, a semi-automatic pistol (which could hold the same amount of ammo) would be a better choice.

Flash suppressor: this does NOT totally conceal the flash. It will not hide your position from others very effectively. Instead, its use is more so shielding the user from temporary blindness while shooting in the dark. Seems like a useful tool for hunting.

Pistol grips: helps with recoil, and comfort.


However, the weight of proof in these type of debates should fall on the party wanting to change the status quo. Here, that would be people in favor of the ban.

I'd like to know how you assume that this assault weapons ban will be successful, when the last assault weapons ban in this country is widely viewed as a failure to curb gun violence.
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Old 01-30-2013, 09:55 AM   #564
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Folding stocks: according to legal gun owners, these make guns far more easily stored and transported. If concealing is one's main goal, a semi-automatic pistol (which could hold the same amount of ammo) would be a better choice.
But a semi handgun and a semi rifle are two completely different guns when it comes to range, hence the war reference. If I wanted to pick off multiple targets in a quick time I would set myself up on a rooftop in a downtown. I would use a rifle, not a handgun. No one that I know hunts with a folding stock, and no one I know uses a folding stock for their go to self defense weapon. Folding stocks were designed specifically for snipers, that was the reason they were invented.

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Flash suppressor: this does NOT totally conceal the flash. It will not hide your position from others very effectively. Instead, its use is more so shielding the user from temporary blindness while shooting in the dark. Seems like a useful tool for hunting.
It's illegal to hunt in the dark in most parts of the U.S., at least any animal you would use a rifle for, and if you need a flask suppressor to hunt for coyote then you need to be a better hunter.

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Pistol grips: helps with recoil, and comfort.
Pistol grips is a gray area, I've met one hunter in all my life that preferred a pistol grip, and that was because he was a shit shot. Pistol grips were introduced for two reasons, and remember the definition says "2 or more" of these modifications. Pistol grips are often coupled with a method of a quick release clip, the other purpose is for using a rifle in a non-rifle position, which is definitely a wartime method, not a hunting method.
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However, the weight of proof in these type of debates should fall on the party wanting to change the status quo. Here, that would be people in favor of the ban.

I'd like to know how you assume that this assault weapons ban will be successful, when the last assault weapons ban in this country is widely viewed as a failure to curb gun violence.
How was the last assault weapons ban viewed as a failure?

Here's the thing: any weapons ban will take a long while to really take any effect. The current model of ban that they are seeking I think will reduce "passion" crimes. But a ban like this will eventually curb the types of weapons on the black market. I'm so sick and tired of pro-guners using this as a reason. The black market is comprised mostly of legally manufactured guns redistributed from legal US manufacturers.
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Old 01-30-2013, 10:46 AM   #565
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Originally Posted by Caleb8844 View Post
Assault Weapon: "Any semiautomatic rifle with a detachable magazine and at least two of the following five items: a folding or telescopic stock; a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon; a bayonet mount; a flash suppressor or threaded barrel (a barrel that can accommodate a flash suppressor); or a grenade launcher."

Other than a grenade launcher, which of those qualities qualifies an "assault weapon" as a weapon of war? Or is banning semi-automatic rifles in general the end goal people here desire?
Do you own an assault weapon?

If you do what do you use it for?
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Old 01-30-2013, 01:53 PM   #566
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But a semi handgun and a semi rifle are two completely different guns when it comes to range, hence the war reference. If I wanted to pick off multiple targets in a quick time I would set myself up on a rooftop in a downtown. I would use a rifle, not a handgun.
Just going to isolate this here to make it easier for the authorities when they come looking for it.


But in all seriousness, are semi automatic handguns legal there? If you want to talk about a weapon that has no other use but to shoot people, there's one right there
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Old 01-30-2013, 02:31 PM   #567
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Just going to isolate this here to make it easier for the authorities when they come looking for it.


But in all seriousness, are semi automatic handguns legal there? If you want to talk about a weapon that has no other use but to shoot people, there's one right there
I was waiting for someone to say that...

But yes, the majority of the US's handguns are semi-automatic.

i believe handguns have a legitimate use for home security, but I'm not the biggest fan of most state's right to conceal laws.
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Old 01-30-2013, 02:36 PM   #568
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Oh, I guess they would all be semi automatic. I'm not really a gun guy (pretty good at Call of Duty though... that's kinda the same thing, right?). I know a few friends that have their handgun licenses here and the restrictions are super strict. You're not even allowed to use it in self defense, no matter what (in your home, doesn't matter), as far as I know
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Old 01-30-2013, 02:53 PM   #569
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Oh, I guess they would all be semi automatic. I'm not really a gun guy (pretty good at Call of Duty though... that's kinda the same thing, right?). I know a few friends that have their handgun licenses here and the restrictions are super strict. You're not even allowed to use it in self defense, no matter what (in your home, doesn't matter), as far as I know
Technically, a revolver isn't a semi-automatic.
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Old 01-30-2013, 02:57 PM   #570
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Is that just because of the mechanics though? I assume you don't have to cock the hammer every time on most
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