Mass Shooting at Connecticut Elementary School

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BEAL said:
... shows just how gullable, ignorant and/or stupid a majority of Americans are when it comes to actually following the issues, and the statements an organization makes.
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1997_NYCKMartpg-horizontal.jpg


"Pop is our best music to date"

:yes:
 
A Pop slam? I'm wondering if Nick66 and Indy500 are the same person. :wink:

Also, Stevie Ray Vaughn avatar = yay.
 
Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold had gone to the Tanner gun show
on Saturday and they took me back with them on Sunday. I
remember this as being in November or December of 1998. When
Eric and Dylan had gone the previous day, a dealer told them
that they needed to bring someone back who was 18. They were
both 17 at the time. This was a private dealer - not a
licensed dealer. While we were walking around, Eric and Dylan
kept asking sellers if they were private or licensed. They
wanted to buy their guns from someone who was private - and
not licensed - because there would be no paperwork or
background check. At one point Eric was interested in a gun
from a licensed dealer. The dealer asked me if I would fill
out some paperwork and I said, "No, I didn't feel comfortable
with that.' I didn't want to put my name on something that I
wasn't going to have control of.

They bought guns from three sellers. They were all private.
They paid cash. There was no receipt. I was not asked any
questions at all. There was no background check. All I had to
do was show my driver's license to prove that I was 18. Dylan
got a shotgun. Eric got a shotgun and a black rifle that he
bought clips for. He was able to buy clips and ammunition
without me having to show any I.D. The sellers didn't write
down any information. I would not have bought a gun for Eric
and Dylan if I had had to give any personal information or
submit to any kind of check at all. I think it was clear to
the sellers that the guns were for Eric and Dylan. They were
the ones asking all the questions and handling the guns. I
had no idea what they were eventually going to do with the
guns. When I look back at it, I think I was kind of naive. I
wish a law requiring background checks had been in effect at
the time. I don't know if Eric and Dylan would have been able
to get guns from another source, but I would not have
helped them. It was too easy. I wish it had been more
difficult. I wouldn't have helped them buy the guns if I
had faced a background check.

Signed

Robyn Anderson
 
Had Harris and Klebold waited until they were 18 and needed background checks, would anything had come up preventing them from owning the guns? I support background checks, but bringing them up as a possible deterrent to a specific case isn't very productive
 
That's terrible.

However, from what I understand, it's commonplace for people to have a gun underneath their pillows in South Africa due to the high levels of crime there.
 
Vlad n U 2 said:
That's terrible.

However, from what I understand, it's commonplace for people to have a gun underneath their pillows in South Africa due to the high levels of crime there.
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Yea I believe so. But I still just don't see the point of keeping guns at home. I'd rather they make it extremely difficult for anybody to procure a gun.
 
LemonMirrorSky said:
This is what happens when guns are allowed to be kept at home...

Oscar Pistorius arrested after 'he accidentally shot dead girlfriend after mistaking her for a burglar' | Mail Online

South African paralympian, Oscar Pistorius accidentally shot his girlfriend on Valentines Day mistaking her for a burglar. :|
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from what i'm reading, doesn't quite sound like an accident.

of course, law abiding, responsible gun owners never, ever snap or fire their guns out of rage in a domestic incident.

never.
 
The effort to prosecute two boys, ages 10 and 11, for allegedly bringing weapons to a Colville school in a plot to kill a classmate is posing legal challenges because the suspects are so young.
The state's criminal justice system presumes that children below the age of 12 do not have the capacity to understand they are planning to commit crimes, Stevens County Prosecutor Tim Rasmussen said Thursday.
A judge can allow prosecutors to pursue criminal charges in juvenile court for children between the ages of 8 and 12, but only if prosecutors can show the youths understood the difference between right and wrong.
"Is it the kind of thing everyone would know is wrong?" Rasmussen said of the legal burden.
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Authorities discovered the plan when a fourth-grader saw one of the boys playing with a knife aboard a school bus and told a school employee what he'd seen. A search of the 10-year-old's backpack found a knife, a .45 caliber semi-automatic pistol and a full ammunition clip, court records showed.
A staff member asked the 10-year-old why he had the gun. The boy said he and the 11-year-old were going to "get" a girl identified in court documents only by initials, according to authorities.
"When asked what he meant by `get' her, (the 10-year-old) responded that he and (the 11-year-old) were going to get (the girl) away from the school and do her in," court records said. The 10-year-old "further stated that the (11-year-old) was going to stab (the girl) with a knife and (the 10-year-old) was supposed to keep everyone away."
Rasmussen said he was thankful that tragedy was averted, even if it means prosecuting the youngest defendants of his career.
"Certainly it is difficult to comprehend 10- and 11-year-olds developing a plan to kill one and possibly other people," Rasmussen said.
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http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2020361446_apwafifthgradeplot2ndldwritethru.html


This might deserve it's own thread because of the ages of the boys, but since it is related to gun violence, I put it here.

Honestly, I'm focusing on the boys' age. It is very disturbing that kids that young would actually set out to kill others. I remember at the age, I had violent thoughts in my head, but I certainly knew better than to actually carry them out.

I blame the parents. Unless both boys are natural born psychopaths, I would say they had lousy parents.
 
Pearl said:
I blame the parents. Unless both boys are natural born psychopaths, I would say they had lousy parents.
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Agreed. Though I'm inclined to think there's a bit of "natural born psychopath" lurking in there, too-from what I understand that sort of thing tends to start revealing itself at a fairly young age.

And while I fully understand the issues involved in prosecuting them given their ages and all that, I would like to make a note to the people taking on the case that if these kids are willing to demonstrate this level of violence now, at the ages of 10 and 11, then they had better send them somewhere where they can possibly get mental help or something. Because if they don't get help or treatment for this, it WILL get worse and they WILL get more dangerous the older they get.

But yes. Just oh-so-charming that we have children plotting school shootings. But nah. We don't need to do anything about their access to the weapons. Nope.

As for the looting story, yeah, was gonna say, I don't remember hearing anything, really, in the way of stories about that. I've no doubt there were instances of that happening, but hell, that happens after ANY natural disaster, unfortunately. But that's why we let the police-you know, the people who are actually TRAINED to handle weapons and deal with criminals and that sort of thing-handle it, instead of let the general public go all vigilante on everyone. Moron.
 
Im not exactly sure what could have been legislated to prevent this? Its not like this kid went and bought a handgun. Obviously he took it from his parents, so fucking charge them for not keeping their gun in a safe, secure spot in the home.

Banning guns isn't going to stop lousy parents from being lousy parents
 
Agreed that if his parents are that irresponsible and don't know how to keep their guns out of the hands of their children, then they should be punished. But that would also tell me that maybe they shouldn't have been allowed to have a gun in their home to begin with. I'm not at all comfortable with the idea of guns and children being in the same place to begin with. I get the protection argument and all that, but as noted by others here, you're more likely to get hurt in your home with your own gun than you are by some stranger, first off, and second, given all the potential dangers posed by kids stumbling across the guns and whatnot, I just don't think it's a good idea for parents to have them in the home if they've got kids.

Yes, lousy parents will be lousy parents no matter what, but lousy parents with easy access to guns just makes an already bad situation that much worse. It's the whole, "We don't really need this problem on top of everything else" situation.
 
The_Pac_Mule said:
Obviously he took it from his parents, so fucking charge them for not keeping their gun in a safe, secure spot in the home.
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Agreed. Now if only you could convince the NRA leadership to ditch the extremist rhetoric and agree to common sense proposals like that instead of treating any attempts at gun control legislation as government tyranny run wild.
 
Jive Turkey said:
I blame the parents and I blame nintendo
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I blame poptarts. They're deadly.


Maryland second-grader suspended for chewing his pastry into the shape of a gun

The Washington Post
Published: Mar 4, 2013, 19:25
By DONNA ST. GEORGE

A 7-year-old Anne Arundel County (Md.) boy was suspended for two days for chewing his breakfast pastry into the shape of a gun and saying, "bang, bang" — an offense that the school described as a threat to other students, according to his family.

The pastry "gun" was a rectangular strawberry-filled bar, akin to a Pop-Tart, that the second-grader had tried to nibble into the shape of a mountain Friday morning, but then found it looked more like a gun, said his father, William "B.J." Welch.

Welch said an assistant principal at Park Elementary School in Baltimore told him that his son pointed the pastry at a classmate — though the child maintains he pointed it at the ceiling.

"In my eyes, it's irrelevant; I don't care who he pointed it at," Welch said. "It was harmless. It was a danish."

The boy's suspension comes amid heightened sensitivity about security and guns_ even pretend guns — in the aftermath of the mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., which left 20 children and six staff members dead.

In the 11 weeks since the massacre, at least two young children in the Washington, D.C. region have been suspended for pointing their fingers like guns, and a 10-year-old in Alexandria, Va., was arrested by police for showing a toy gun to others on his school bus. In Pennsylvania, a 5-year-old was suspended for talking to classmates about shooting her Hello Kitty gun that blows bubbles.

Anne Arundel officials declined comment because of confidentiality laws, said schools spokesman Bob Mosier, who added that a letter about the incident was sent home to families Friday and is posted on the school's web site.

In the letter, Myrna Phillips, the assistant principal, informed parents that a student "used food to make inappropriate gestures that disrupted the class" but said no "physical threats" were made and no one was harmed.

If children remain troubled by the incident, Phillips wrote, parents should "help them share their feelings." A counselor would also be available to students, the letter said. "In general, please remind them of the importance of making good choices," she wrote.

For the Welch family, the episode started Friday morning, when the 7-year-old was given the pastry as part of a school-wide breakfast program. By about 9:20 am, the boy was being suspended and his father was called in.

Welch said he asked the assistant principal if anyone had been scared by the pastry. Someone could have been, he said he was told.

The father said he had high regard for the school, so the episode was puzzling.

"I feel this is just a direct result of society feeling that guns are evil and guns are bad . . . and if you make your pastry into a gun, you're going to be the next Columbine shooter," Welch said.

Welch has followed news accounts of other suspensions in recent weeks and contends educators are going overboard, which he said led him to go public.

"Kids are losing time in school for nothing more than playing," he said, pointing out that there is a danger of long-term effects when gun-involved incidents are written into students' permanent records.

He wondered: What if his son gets turned down for a security clearance when he's in his 20s because of a pretend gun offense at age 7? "That may sound far-fetched but, you know what, in today's world, it's possible," he said.

Welch said his 7-year-old has three brothers, and all are "typical" boys. The children have Nerf guns at home, and their grandfather is an avid hunter. Welch is a strong supporter of gun rights.

On Monday, Welch asked the school principal to strike references to guns from his son's records. The principal looked into the idea, and said it could not be done, he said.

Welch said school leaders also told him Monday — as the case made national news — that the suspension was related to ongoing behavior, not guns, an idea he said is at odds with what he was told Friday and the letter sent to school families.

"Honestly, I think he was just kind of doing what kids do," Welch said of his son. "To him, it was just a game, and to the school it was more than that."
 
This is what always gets me with these stories. A food in the shape of a gun, a water gun, stuff like that, and there's an immediate reaction and suspension and all that sort of thing (and yes, I know the article made note that the kid's suspension may have had to do with other ongoing problems. But I'm guessing the gun joke didn't help matters).

But all this talk of having adults bring REAL guns onto the campuses (or, as some have actually suggested, arming the kids themselves), for "protection" purposes? Yeah, that's totally cool. No chance for anything to go wrong there.

Good god, our priorities and logic on this topic are so beyond fucked up.
 
Four killed in upstate New York shootings, police say - CNN.com

"This is truly an inexplicable situation; there was no apparent, rational motive to the best of our knowledge ... to provoke these attacks," Cuomo said. "These are the types of peaceful, quiet communities that one would say 'this could never happen here,'" he said, referring to Mohawk and Herkimer.
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A 1973 drunken driving arrest is the only past incident on Myers' record, D'Amico told the media.
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It never ends. :|
 
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