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Old 12-16-2012, 08:42 PM   #211
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Apparently the universe is America and its obsession with guns.

Nothing we can do except buy more guns
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Old 12-16-2012, 09:09 PM   #212
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Just saw POTUS preempt Sunday Night Football. He's coming for our guns fo' shnizzle. Time to stock up before it's too late.

 
Seriously, anyone want to bet gun sales are up significantly next week.
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Old 12-16-2012, 09:24 PM   #213
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^this is heartening - Pressing Issues: Now Mulitply This In Every Community
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Old 12-16-2012, 09:52 PM   #214
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I live in Vermont, which despite being one of the most liberal state in the country (we have as far as I know the only self-proclaimed socialist senator), we ironically have the most lax gun laws.

We don't have waiting periods.

You are allowed to carry any sort of firearm, be it a handgun or assault rifle, either concealed or openly, without a permit. There's no such thing as a concealed carry or open carry permit here. The only restriction is that you can't bring a firearm onto school, state, or federal property. Only two other states allow that, I can't think of which ones though.

You don't have to register your firearms.

You only have to be 16 to possess or carry a firearm, and if you're under 16 you only need parental consent.

Sounds crazy right? Yet we have virtually no violent crime.

I think the fed's should stay out of gun control laws and leave it up to the states to regulate. That's just my two cents and I'm sure most here will disagree, but I'd like to see someone explain to me how Vermont has less regulations than Texas results in an extremely small amount of violent crime.

Maybe it's because were all hippies and just love each other so much.

http://gun.laws.com/state-gun-laws/vermont-gun-laws

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The state of Vermont is one of many to employ very few firearm laws or restrictions. Vermont can arguably be considered as the state with the least amount of firearm laws. Even though the state may share similar legislature with other notably less restrictive states, such as no permits to purchase, or the requiring of registration of guns and their owners, the most notable law--or lack thereof--is the fact that under Vermont firearm laws, it not necessary to have a permit to conceal and carry a weapon.

It is an aspect of law that the state of Texas is currently pursuing and attempting to push into the state's legislature as well. It is possible that the most stringent code of firearms law in the state pertains to the fact that all dealers are required to keep records of all sales of new and used handguns.

The records must include the weapon's make, name, and model, as well as the caliber and manufacturer's serial number. The purchaser's information is also included on the record, which includes name, address, occupation, age, height, weight, and even hair and eye color. The records must be kept on file and on location for at least six years and made available to the proper authorities if ever requested.

Possession of a firearm is not contingent to obtaining permits or licenses either. No one under the age of 16 may be in possession of a firearm unless the minor has the permission of a parent or legal guardian. One of the few restrictions imposed by Vermont firearm laws is that no one can be in possession of a zip gun. A zip gun is defined as a homemade firearm or weapon.

These homemade weapons can often be disguised as other objects or hidden within them. Zip guns may commonly be disguised as pens, flashlights, or cell phones. Generally speaking, zip guns are prohibited and considered illegal in the United States. It is interesting that Vermont decided to enact this law in to writing, perhaps because of the fact that open carry and conceal and carry is available in the state with out a permit.

Because there are no restrictions as to what kind of weapon may be carried, the possibility of carrying a zip gun could be considered possible if it was not enacted as illegal by firearm law of Vermont. However, other dangerous firearms such as machine guns or automatic weapons do not have any regulations imposed. The purchase, possession, and selling of machine guns is allowed by Vermont law, as long as the weapon is registered and complies with federal laws.

As mentioned, the carrying of a firearm--open or concealed--is legal in Vermont. The only imposed restrictions upon the carrying of firearms is that an individual may not carry or possess a firearm on school grounds. The only exception to this law is if a firearms is on the grounds for the purpose of education and safety. This also includes court houses as well.

The other provision put in to law is that a loaded shotgun or rifle may not be carried in a vehicle on a public highway. Exempt from this law are law enforcement officers and hunters who may have a physical disability and provided with permit by the fish and game commissioner allowing them to do so.
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Old 12-16-2012, 09:56 PM   #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Pac_Mule View Post
I think the fed's should stay out of gun control laws and leave it up to the states to regulate. That's just my two cents and I'm sure most here will disagree, but I'd like to see someone explain to me how Vermont having less regulations than Texas results in an extremely small amount of violent crime.
A wealthy, highly-educated citizenry and no large urban areas? Stick Houston into Vermont, and I think your crime statistics might change a bit.
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Old 12-16-2012, 09:58 PM   #216
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A wealthy, highly-educated citizenry and no large urban areas? Stick Houston into Vermont, and I think your crime statistics might change a bit.
That's my point, states should make their own laws as they seem fit.
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Old 12-16-2012, 10:01 PM   #217
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I think it was a gun like this



that killed the women and children, it weighs about as much as a laptop, 5.5 pounds
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Old 12-16-2012, 10:03 PM   #218
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Originally Posted by The_Pac_Mule View Post

That's my point, states should make their own laws as they seem fit.
It may be more appropriate to have loose gun laws in New England than it is in California and Texas. But if the argument that stricter gun laws, ceteris paribus, lead to less crime is valid, then that creates an enormous problem in, say, my state, since we have both cities like Houston and Dallas and a governor who has no problem with school teachers being armed.
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Old 12-16-2012, 10:06 PM   #219
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that killed the women and children, it weighs about as much as a laptop, 5.5 pounds
yes, he used a bushmaster .223 which I heard he modified himself in some sort of way
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Old 12-16-2012, 10:11 PM   #220
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Sometimes, like on Friday, I wish I could withdraw from the human race. So very disturbing. Idiots.

http://m.deadspin.com/5968935/take-t...night-football
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Old 12-16-2012, 10:14 PM   #221
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I know this is going to be very controversial here, but I honestly believe someone at every school should have access to some sort of firearm, be it on them or locked up somewhere in the school.

In highschool we had a local police officer who worked at our school. He always had a loaded glock on him. And I felt very safe at school, even during those years which saw a string of shootings, like the Amish School shooting and the VA Tech Massacre. The fact that there was a man with a gun at our school didn't bother me at all. Or anyone else.
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Old 12-16-2012, 10:18 PM   #222
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What good is a Glock if someone decides to shoot up a school with a semi-automatic rifle?
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Old 12-16-2012, 10:40 PM   #223
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This is certainly a tragedy. But, as has been noted, the shooter acquired the weapon from his mother. What new law could have prevented this?

but isn't this precisely the problem? she owned several weapons *and* a semi-automatic that were all purchased legally. and these legal weapons -- NOT bought on a black market -- were used to murder children. it's what's legal that is the problem. do you think this woman would have been in possession of the .223 if it hadn't been legal?

and apparently, the mother was a gun nut herself. from New Hampshire.



Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Pac_Mule View Post
I live in Vermont, which despite being one of the most liberal state in the country (we have as far as I know the only self-proclaimed socialist senator), we ironically have the most lax gun laws.


Maybe it's because were all hippies and just love each other so much.

Vermont Gun Laws | Gun

actually, you're more right than you know. Vermont is a great place. Vermont's liberalism has given it top notch health care, and it's a fairly unique state in that comparing Vermont to Texas (or even Chicago) is like comparing New Zealand to India. i agree that states should have freedom to regulate based upon their needs, however can we at least agree that no one in rural Montana or urban Oakland can make a case as to why a .223 or AR-15 is a civil right and utterly essential to self-defense?




Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Pac_Mule View Post
I know this is going to be very controversial here, but I honestly believe someone at every school should have access to some sort of firearm, be it on them or locked up somewhere in the school.


i've actually thought about this and i don't think it's preposterous, at least on the face of it. yes, if that principal had a gun, maybe she could have taken him out.

but the reality is that the presence of a gun in any environment dramatically increases the chance of that gun being used to kill someone. and it's very unlikely that we'll all become the movie action heroes we seem to think we'll be in a situation like this.

Quote:
Sep. 30, 2009 — In a first-of its-kind study, epidemiologists at the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine found that, on average, guns did not protect those who possessed them from being shot in an assault. The study estimated that people with a gun were 4.5 times more likely to be shot in an assault than those not possessing a gun.

[...]

What Penn researchers found was alarming – almost five Philadelphians were shot every day over the course of the study and about 1 of these 5 people died. The research team concluded that, although successful defensive gun uses are possible and do occur each year, the chances of success are low. People should rethink their possession of guns or, at least, understand that regular possession necessitates careful safety countermeasures, write the authors. Suggestions to the contrary, especially for urban residents who may see gun possession as a defense against a dangerous environment should be discussed and thoughtfully reconsidered.

Protection Or Peril? Gun Possession Of Questionable Value In An Assault, Study Finds

i know very little about guns. i did not grow up near guns. however, i have traveled extensively throughout the US and i have encountered what might be known as "gun culture" -- people for whom hunting is part of their lives. these people are all serious, smart, responsible gun owners who have great respect for their firearms.

but that to me seems completely and utterly distinct from the weapons used in the massacres this year.
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Old 12-16-2012, 10:42 PM   #224
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What good is a Glock if someone decides to shoot up a school with a semi-automatic rifle?
A lot of good as long as you know how to use it, which he certainly did. In a close-quarters environment like a school, an assault rifle doesn't have any edge over a good handgun, other than clip size. I would actually rather have a handgun as its more maneuverable and I could move and fire quicker. I don't think we've had any school shooter that had any sort of professional training in firearms. Not being arrogant, but myself or any former military or law enforcement would have more than likely taken this clown out very swiftly with nothing more than a pistol.
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Old 12-16-2012, 10:42 PM   #225
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The idea of my high school principle having a gun would have scared me silly.
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