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Old 12-16-2012, 12:28 PM   #181
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So tell me, why does anyone need 47 guns? This is sickening.


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Old 12-16-2012, 12:31 PM   #182
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Actually Steve, lack of empathy is a part if aspergers.
Not in every case.

I've come across one child that showed a lack of empathy ( and that really freaked his parents out). It's not that cut and dry when it comes to autism.
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Old 12-16-2012, 12:33 PM   #183
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So tell me, why does anyone need 47 guns? This is sickening.

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Same reason why people go to 20 U2 shows. That's what they like.
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Old 12-16-2012, 12:51 PM   #184
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And another.

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/oct...ia29-2009jun29

I can't even imagine dealing with what these parents deal with. And these are ones who are desperately trying to get help.
Wow. So what can they do? Is there a correlation between kids who act like this and criminal behavior as adults? Have there been any concrete studies done on the same person from childhood to adulthood?
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Old 12-16-2012, 01:08 PM   #185
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Wow. So what can they do? Is there a correlation between kids who act like this and criminal behavior as adults? Have there been any concrete studies done on the same person from childhood to adulthood?
The little girl in that article was diagnosed with childhood onset schizophrenia, something that wasn't really a thing till recently. From reports I've seen, it sounds like she's doing better. But then her parents are open with their identities and there are tons of articles out there about her. The NY Times article I posted is a different scenario, and as the researcher in the article stated, he's only been studying child psychopaths (for lack of a better term...) for 10 years now, which makes it a relatively new and unknown area. It takes a long time and many researchers to form a decent body of work/knowledge base. That's not to say that children like this didn't exist before, they're just coming to light now.

But yes, there are definite signs in childhood that they have been able to retrospectively identify from the childhoods of adult psychopaths. I'm just not sure that there are many (if any) cases where they have been able to start in childhood and follow along in a longitudinal study.

Btw, your comparison about someone who owns a large amount of guns and one who goes to a lot of U2 shows made me think -- excess is a rampant part of our society. More is always better.
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Old 12-16-2012, 01:28 PM   #186
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Actually Steve, lack of empathy is a part if aspergers.
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Originally Posted by Steved1998 View Post
Not in every case.

I've come across one child that showed a lack of empathy ( and that really freaked his parents out). It's not that cut and dry when it comes to autism.
Lacking empathy is kind of a...cold way of putting it, one that sort of implies a degree of cruelty in their behaviour. The way I've always heard it described is that they are unable to take the perspective of the other, which is the reason for the whole social awkwardness thing, even in those who are relatively high functioning. So in a way you could say that's lacking empathy, but not to the degree that the child from the NY Times article is.
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Old 12-16-2012, 01:46 PM   #187
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The little girl in that article was diagnosed with childhood onset schizophrenia, something that wasn't really a thing till recently. From reports I've seen, it sounds like she's doing better. But then her parents are open with their identities and there are tons of articles out there about her. The NY Times article I posted is a different scenario, and as the researcher in the article stated, he's only been studying child psychopaths (for lack of a better term...) for 10 years now, which makes it a relatively new and unknown area. It takes a long time and many researchers to form a decent body of work/knowledge base. That's not to say that children like this didn't exist before, they're just coming to light now.

But yes, there are definite signs in childhood that they have been able to retrospectively identify from the childhoods of adult psychopaths. I'm just not sure that there are many (if any) cases where they have been able to start in childhood and follow along in a longitudinal study.

Btw, your comparison about someone who owns a large amount of guns and one who goes to a lot of U2 shows made me think -- excess is a rampant part of our society. More is always better.
It's definitely interesting. I worked with a child that displayed many of the same characteristics as the boy in the ny times article. It definitely is something that warrants further long term study.

Exactly look at Thanksgiving and then Black Friday afterwards. It's a major flaw of our society. Too much is not enough.
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Old 12-16-2012, 01:52 PM   #188
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Lacking empathy is kind of a...cold way of putting it, one that sort of implies a degree of cruelty in their behaviour. The way I've always heard it described is that they are unable to take the perspective of the other, which is the reason for the whole social awkwardness thing, even in those who are relatively high functioning. So in a way you could say that's lacking empathy, but not to the degree that the child from the NY Times article is.
That is a better way to put it. I certainly have seen that, but those same kids were still worried about "being good people" (as one boy put it). To imply that they lack empathy would make one think that they're unable to form attachments or show any kind of affection or understand emotions, which if you've ever worked with that population is not the case. Children that have autism have lots of love and empathy for other people, they just have a hard time seeing things from another point of view or judging how people react on a social level.
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Old 12-16-2012, 02:42 PM   #189
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Exactly. It's been proposed that what is perceived as a lack of empathy in autism is caused by deficits in reading social cues and the emotions of others, and in expressing them. Simon Baron-Cohen (Sacha's cousin) has done some fascinating work in this area. You can google his scholarly articles.

Zero Degrees of Empathy by Simon Baron-Cohen – review | Books | The Observer
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Old 12-16-2012, 03:13 PM   #190
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[QUOTE="solemole"]You know, of all this talk about "mental illness", I haven't read one mention about Asperger syndrome, a high-functioning form of autism, characterized by "characterized by significant difficulties in social interaction, alongside restricted and repetitive patterns of behavior and interests", while its linguistic and cognitive development are preserved. Social behavior is described as awkward at best, and a lack of empathy is indicated. At least, this is what Wikipedia says.

The New York Times and NBC News have mentioned the shooter is said to have Asperger syndrome.



Can people differentiate autism from "mental illness"? Because if this incident is connected with the shooter's Asperger syndrome, then all the "mental illness" arguments are moot.

Can people please separate aspergers from mental illness. Aspergers does not predispose you to violent outbursts or psychotic killing sprees. There is alot of mis information out there at the moment that is going around about aspergers and as someone that lives and breathes autism/ aspergers everyday, this is really upsetting. Kids that have aspergers / autism may be quiet or seen as weird or different and they experience bullying every day. This incident is going to make life much harder for them.
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Old 12-16-2012, 03:28 PM   #191
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While on the subject of gun control, I just want to say that the US has to do something about this issue. Maybe some of us remember the shooting at a school in Scotland some 15 years ago where an entire class of young children and their teacher were killed. Britain changed their gun laws right after that. If America doesn't, how can we expect any respect from the rest of the world?
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Old 12-16-2012, 03:51 PM   #192
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This is certainly a tragedy. But, as has been noted, the shooter acquired the weapon from his mother. What new law could have prevented this?
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Old 12-16-2012, 03:56 PM   #193
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Even if the US enforces stringent measures on gun control, a black market for guns will always be present. Access to guns will always be facilitated regardless of what laws are implemented. Money and black marketed items go hand in hand to break stringent laws, very similar what happens with countries with foreign currency exchange controls.
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Old 12-16-2012, 03:59 PM   #194
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[QUOTE=mysterious_jen;7608091]
Quote:
Originally Posted by solemole
You know, of all this talk about "mental illness", I haven't read one mention about Asperger syndrome, a high-functioning form of autism, characterized by "characterized by significant difficulties in social interaction, alongside restricted and repetitive patterns of behavior and interests", while its linguistic and cognitive development are preserved. Social behavior is described as awkward at best, and a lack of empathy is indicated. At least, this is what Wikipedia says.

The New York Times and NBC News have mentioned the shooter is said to have Asperger syndrome.



Can people differentiate autism from "mental illness"? Because if this incident is connected with the shooter's Asperger syndrome, then all the "mental illness" arguments are moot.

Can people please separate aspergers from mental illness. Aspergers does not predispose you to violent outbursts or psychotic killing sprees. There is alot of mis information out there at the moment that is going around about aspergers and as someone that lives and breathes autism/ aspergers everyday, this is really upsetting. Kids that have aspergers / autism may be quiet or seen as weird or different and they experience bullying every day. This incident is going to make life much harder for them.
Autism is a mental illness, but Aspergers/Autism should not predispose someone to such violent behaviour.** Comparing those disorders to something that would cause this is like the difference between a cold or seasonal allergy to a cancer. Huge difference.

The media has been very irresponsible in reporting this, although that shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. They tend to latch on to one small facet and focus on that and repeat it over and over, without ever fully explaining the implications. I did hear on Friday that the shooter's brother said he also had a personality disorder (a whole other kettle of fish, but far more understandable than Asperger's alone, but who knows if that is even accurate).

This is a pet peeve of mine, when the media reports on any new psychological studies. They invariably do not tell the whole story (including the intent of the researchers and the scope of the results) and then the public calls BS and it makes the entire field look bad. People who are interested would do better to learn how to read academic articles and judge for themselves.

**again, a matter of degree. I have a friend with a brother who has autism and is very low functioning. He sometimes becomes violent, lashing out at caregivers, but he would not have the cognitive capacity to plan and carry out something on a larger scale.
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Old 12-16-2012, 03:59 PM   #195
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The lack of empathy described in Asperger's Disorder is qualitatively different from that of a sociopath.

Individuals with Asperger's lack theory of mind and can't conceive that others' experiences and perceptions are different from their own. Very different from a sociopath who can intellectually understand the suffering of another person and just doesn't care.

In many cases vengeance and cruelty would be difficult concepts for someone with Asperger's to grasp. They are "rule followers" for the most part. I hope this tragedy doesn't demonized them as a group.
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