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Old 12-15-2012, 01:53 PM   #151
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From Roger Ebert's web site and his 2003 review of the movie Elephant. I've never seen the movie, but apparently that story he tells about the media is making the rounds of the internet.

Just like CNN keeps saying they won't use this latest guy's name, but they keep doing it. Really no need to do it at this point, the horse is way out of the barn. And frankly you just look like a fraud for saying it.

Elephant :: rogerebert.com :: Reviews

Let me tell you a story. The day after Columbine, I was interviewed for the Tom Brokaw news program. The reporter had been assigned a theory and was seeking sound bites to support it. "Wouldn't you say," she asked, "that killings like this are influenced by violent movies?" No, I said, I wouldn't say that. "But what about 'Basketball Diaries'?" she asked. "Doesn't that have a scene of a boy walking into a school with a machine gun?" The obscure 1995 Leonardo Di Caprio movie did indeed have a brief fantasy scene of that nature, I said, but the movie failed at the box office (it grossed only $2.5 million), and it's unlikely the Columbine killers saw it.

The reporter looked disappointed, so I offered her my theory. "Events like this," I said, "if they are influenced by anything, are influenced by news programs like your own. When an unbalanced kid walks into a school and starts shooting, it becomes a major media event. Cable news drops ordinary programming and goes around the clock with it. The story is assigned a logo and a theme song; these two kids were packaged as the Trench Coat Mafia. The message is clear to other disturbed kids around the country: If I shoot up my school, I can be famous. The TV will talk about nothing else but me. Experts will try to figure out what I was thinking. The kids and teachers at school will see they shouldn't have messed with me. I'll go out in a blaze of glory."

In short, I said, events like Columbine are influenced far less by violent movies than by CNN, the NBC Nightly News and all the other news media, who glorify the killers in the guise of "explaining" them. I commended the policy at the Sun-Times, where our editor said the paper would no longer feature school killings on Page 1. The reporter thanked me and turned off the camera. Of course the interview was never used. They found plenty of talking heads to condemn violent movies, and everybody was happy.
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Old 12-15-2012, 04:07 PM   #152
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Film people blame TV people.
TV people blame parents.
Parents blame the film and TV people.
And the cycle continues.
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Old 12-15-2012, 05:03 PM   #153
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How about just a start, we fix the gun show loop hole. Make it a baby step and show that the big bad gov or liberals aren't going to take the guns away.

What I'm finding on Facebook and twitter is that vocal gun owners are incredibly selfish. Any sort of inconvenience to their right trumps the right of the innocent victims or future victims right to live. "Why do I have to be punished with more rules when I'm one of the good ones"

As soon as you bring up gun laws their primal instinct is we will take them away. We have to show that we as a country and government want to make society safer with guns.

Sad to even write that last sentence as I'm in favor of banning all of them. But I know that's just too much to ask for. So compromise and make it as strict of a process to own a gun
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Old 12-15-2012, 05:08 PM   #154
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Apparently the guy tried to buy guns from a local sporting goods store and was denied. The mother apparently taught her son to shoot. So the laws (such as they are) worked.

What I just posted on Facebook: "Dear gun owners -- if your child is demonstrating signs of mental illness, maybe DON'T TEACH THEM HOW TO SHOOT."
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Old 12-15-2012, 05:10 PM   #155
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As always, out of tragedy comes stories of heroism. These stories are moving:

Quote:
She then discovered that her classroom door would not lock. After blocking the door from the inside with a filing cabinet, Jacob and the rest of the library staff guided the children in a group-crawl to a closet in the back.
"The kids cozied up, and we waited," Jacob said, adding that the children were told it was a drill. "We settled them down with paper and crayons."
"When the police finally came, we were afraid to open the door," she said of the hour-long ordeal. The staff only did when police slipped a badge under the door.
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A parent said his 6-year-old son was in class when the gunman burst in and shot the teacher.
"That's when my son grabbed a bunch of his friends and ran out the door," Robert Licata said. "He was very brave. He waited for his friends."

Lives saved by teachers, custodian and even children in Connecticut school shooting - U.S. News

The names of those killed have been released. I'm not ready to read it or even see the photos of them, especially the children. It's just too hard to even think about.
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Old 12-15-2012, 06:11 PM   #156
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I recently heard this stat from what I believe to be a reliable source

number of Starbucks in the USA and the entire world is less than number of gun stores in the USA.
Isn't it true that most guns in USA are purchased at gun shows?

Not that this is how most guns are obtained, but I will never forget the scene in Bowling for Columbine (everyone should see this movie) when MM goes in to a bank in some little town USA and opens an account. Guess what the free gift was nope not a toaster.... a freaking gun!!!
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Old 12-15-2012, 06:31 PM   #157
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You know, of all this talk about "mental illness", I haven't read one mention about Asperger syndrome, a high-functioning form of autism, characterized by "characterized by significant difficulties in social interaction, alongside restricted and repetitive patterns of behavior and interests", while its linguistic and cognitive development are preserved. Social behavior is described as awkward at best, and a lack of empathy is indicated. At least, this is what Wikipedia says.

The New York Times and NBC News have mentioned the shooter is said to have Asperger syndrome.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/15/ny...ss-killer.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/16/ny...-generous.html

Conn. town mourns as police look for answers - Local News - Clarksburg, WV | NBC News

Asperger syndrome is usually diagnosed at 30 months of age.

Can people differentiate autism from "mental illness"? Because if this incident is connected with the shooter's Asperger syndrome, then all the "mental illness" arguments are moot.

That being said, I'd like to add this article link: http://www.poynter.org/latest-news/m...ental-illness/
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Old 12-15-2012, 06:48 PM   #158
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Yes it came out yesterday that he may have had Aspergers. Unfortunately I heard on the radio today what he did to those kids. Not going to repeat it, wouldn't and can't. Can't handle it.

I'm no expert but there must have been way more than Aspergers going on there. Contributing factor to much bigger issues-perhaps.
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Old 12-15-2012, 07:00 PM   #159
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I'm no expert but there must have been way more than Aspergers going on there. Contributing factor to much bigger issues-perhaps.
Surely. Every person I know with Asperger's is actually quite level-headed. (One of them posted a lengthy status about this tragedy expressing deep sorrow and indeed empathy.) It's very manageable. And isn't it a more mild form of autism..?
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Old 12-15-2012, 07:47 PM   #160
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Surely. Every person I know with Asperger's is actually quite level-headed. (One of them posted a lengthy status about this tragedy expressing deep sorrow and indeed empathy.) It's very manageable. And isn't it a more mild form of autism..?
It is a mild form of autism. I knew someone with Asperger's. While he didn't show any signs of being a danger to society, he was socially inept and it made others uncomfortable. From I understand, he never received proper treatment for his condition because it wasn't understood well for many years.

Lanza must've had other problems besides Asperger's. Maybe that combined with his mental illness caused him to have no empathy for his victims.
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Old 12-15-2012, 08:22 PM   #161
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There are certainly cases where individuals diagnosed with Asperger's or mild autism in childhood develop psychosis as adults.

For the most part, people with Asperger's lack theory of mind, which is the ability to comprehend a situation from another person's perspective. I would almost think this sort of premeditated cruelty would be beyond their capacity. Definitely more to this story than Asperger's.
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Old 12-15-2012, 10:42 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by nathan1977 View Post
What I just posted on Facebook: "Dear gun owners -- if your child is demonstrating signs of mental illness, maybe DON'T TEACH THEM HOW TO SHOOT."
Seems so simple, doesn't it?

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Originally Posted by BEAL View Post
What I'm finding on Facebook and twitter is that vocal gun owners are incredibly selfish. Any sort of inconvenience to their right trumps the right of the innocent victims or future victims right to live. "Why do I have to be punished with more rules when I'm one of the good ones"

As soon as you bring up gun laws their primal instinct is we will take them away. We have to show that we as a country and government want to make society safer with guns.

Sad to even write that last sentence as I'm in favor of banning all of them. But I know that's just too much to ask for. So compromise and make it as strict of a process to own a gun
Fully agreed with this. I don't understand why people get so freaking protective over guns. I will NEVER understand the fascination with them, or obsession people have about them, ever. I too would love to live in a world where they didn't exist at all.

But we don't. And some people are responsible with guns and I agree that they should not be punished for what some disturbed person does with a gun.

And yet some of them seem to retreat into their "It's my gun and you can't take it away!" mantra anyway. Have you abused your right/privilege with guns? No? Then nobody is going to take your gun away. Settle. Down. I would think ALL legit, honest, responsible gun owners would be among the first to stand up and demand that we exercise some control with this stuff. Don't let the bad people do more damage to a right/privilege that you wish to keep having.

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The thing that I'm concerned about while reading this article is that people are going to start to think anyone who is quiet and keeps to themselves is a definite psycho. That really is unfair because some people are quiet by nature; not everyone is an extrovert. And if we're saying we should all look for the warning signs in people, we shouldn't stigmatize quiet people.
Ugh, yeah, that's the thing I always worry about, too. I always hear after these stories about how these kids were quiet and kept to themselves and people say that with a hint of concern in their voices.

Then you find out that they abused animals as a child or, as I noted with the Virginia Tech shooter, set a dorm room on fire or something, and I always wonder how THAT stuff managed to slip past people's radar. Those would be massive red flags to me that someone had some serious issues going on, but hey...

Thank you for those stories about the heroes, by the way, Pearl. Any good news and stories are certainly welcome right now.

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The names of those killed have been released. I'm not ready to read it or even see the photos of them, especially the children. It's just too hard to even think about.
I know, I feel the same way. I'm not interested to read about the gunman right now, either. Today was incredibly busy at work and there were kids running around and being silly and hyper and all that stuff and I welcomed that sound so much.

Also, iron yuppie, Cori, and MrsS, nice posts, all of you.
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Old 12-15-2012, 11:13 PM   #163
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I think all the children were first graders, they were shot up to 11 times each, I think all the adults were women. Women and children.
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Old 12-15-2012, 11:21 PM   #164
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Americans would be less free if they couldn't have semi-automatic assault rifles to mow down children with 5-7 bullets each on average.

So much wrong with the SCOTUS' 2nd amendment interpretation, this is a great example of why elections really do matter.
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Old 12-15-2012, 11:27 PM   #165
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I saw a news thing on Yahoo last night regarding Huckabee's comments on this story. According to him, the reason this happened is because we're taking God out of our schools .

That reasoning amazes me because it makes it sound like God's just letting these kids get killed because he's angry at not being talked about enough in schools or something. If that's the case, what an awesome figure you guys are worshiping, Christians!

(Also, so should we start praising God in movie theaters, then? And what about the shootings that have happened in churches? You're talking about God all over the place there, so what's the excuse in that case?)
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