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Old 05-15-2008, 02:26 PM   #121
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Quote:
Originally posted by dsmith2904
Unfortunately it looks like we will be voting on a definition of marriage amendment in November, so it's not over yet.


and this is very interesting to me. it's reasonable to assume that thousands of people are going to get married between now and November.

are Californians really going to vote to forcibly divorce thousands of people?
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Old 05-15-2008, 02:57 PM   #122
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
and this is very interesting to me. it's reasonable to assume that thousands of people are going to get married between now and November.

are Californians really going to vote to forcibly divorce thousands of people?
The original San Francisco marriages were invalidated so if this amendment passed, any new marriages done in accordance with the ruling would be invalidated as well.

I just don't understand how two men or two women who are in love getting married makes marriage any less special for man and woman who are in love getting married.

It'd be nice to think that one day we'll look back and think this as ridiculous as laws, rules and traditions preventing people of different ethnicities, religions or classes from marrying.
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Old 05-15-2008, 03:08 PM   #123
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511

are Californians really going to vote to forcibly divorce thousands of people?
a certain segment is mobilized to get that on the ballot

I think they may succeed.

it may pass, especially with the "equal status" domestic partnership laws on the books

this will no doubt fuel all those who claim that "activist courts" are making laws


I really wish the government would grant a "civil marriage" to any two adults that choose to get one

and that "religious marriages" be granted the same weight as these "civil marriages"

and that religions retain their right to "discriminate" and deny their "religious marriage" to any one they choose
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Old 05-15-2008, 03:20 PM   #124
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep


a certain segment is mobilized to get that on the ballot

I think they may succeed.

it may pass, especially with the "equal status" domestic partnership laws on the books

this will no doubt fuel all those who claim that "activist courts" are making laws


what's interesting is that 6 of the 7 justices are Republican appointees, and that 3 of the 4 who voted to repeal the ban are, likewise, Republican appointees. and the Republican governor will let the ruling stand.
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Old 05-15-2008, 03:21 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep

I really wish the government would grant a "civil marriage" to any two adults that choose to get one

and that "religious marriages" be granted the same weight as these "civil marriages"

and that religions retain their right to "discriminate" and deny their "religious marriage" to any one they choose
I totally agree
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Old 05-15-2008, 03:33 PM   #126
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Originally posted by Irvine511

what's interesting is that 6 of the 7 justices are Republican appointees, and that 3 of the 4 who voted to repeal the ban are, likewise, Republican appointees. and the Republican governor will let the ruling stand.
republican appointees in CA, esp if they have to be confirmed by the Dem controlled Senate

are probably much more liberal than that new Dem Congressmen from Miss
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Old 05-15-2008, 03:50 PM   #127
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Aren't old-skool Republicans supposed to be all about less government and more freedom? Are they making a comeback?
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Old 05-15-2008, 04:09 PM   #128
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Originally posted by deep


republican appointees in CA, esp if they have to be confirmed by the Dem controlled Senate

are probably much more liberal than that new Dem Congressmen from Miss


agreed.

but it does blunt the political impact.
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Old 05-15-2008, 04:49 PM   #129
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another thought: is this not more of a problem for McCain and the Republican "base"?

McCain voted against the FMA. how can he credibly demagogue?
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Old 05-15-2008, 05:39 PM   #130
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep

I really wish the government would grant a "civil marriage" to any two adults that choose to get one

and that "religious marriages" be granted the same weight as these "civil marriages"

and that religions retain their right to "discriminate" and deny their "religious marriage" to any one they choose
Good job keeping the condescension on the down-low, yet still present.


In any case, I'm rather pleased that the ban was overturned. It will have little to no effect on (as namkcuR put it) "the fabric of one of society's oldest establishments" and, furthermore, it keeps the majority happy, which is difficult to argue with. Those who honestly fear gay marriage will comprise the moral stability of this country will be in for a surprise 5 years from now when hardly a thing has changed, for better or worse, probably for the better if anything.
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Old 05-16-2008, 12:27 PM   #131
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this op-ed is too fun not to share:



[q]Court approves evil gay agenda
Satan's plan to make uptight straight people "really uncomfortable" working out "fabulously," say Bay Area gays

By Mark Morford, SF Gate Columnist

Friday, May 16, 2008

We are all going to die. Very, very soon. Did you know?

Apparently, the signs are all in place and the plague is clearly nigh and Armageddon is fast upon us because, oh my angry heterosexual god, the announcement has now been handed down: Couples who deeply love one another may now get married in California. It's true.

Wait, there's more. The couple in question might both have penises. Or they both might not. This is the crazy, terrifying new thing: It is totally up to them. Can you imagine?

Put another way: If you are a loving couple in this fine and baffled state, your particular combination of genitalia has officially been deemed irrelevant as far as whether or not you may hold a lovely little ceremony and enjoy a year or three of wedded bliss and buy a tiny condo you can't really afford, and then fight about money and who gets to name the dog as you lose that once-omnipotent romantic spark and rarely have sex anymore and eat your meals in silence as half of you get divorced in about 5.3 years and end up back on the dating scene, wondering whatever happened to your dreams. You know, just like everyone else!

Isn't that wonderful? Isn't that absolutely terrifying? Isn't that both? You're damn right it is.

Here's the problem: despite the tears of joy flooding through the gay community and despite the soothing gobs of liberal bliss pouring like warm honey over tens of thousands -- nay, millions -- of progressive humans worldwide, all of whom are cheering this landmark groundbreaking rainbow-colored California Supreme Court decision, seeing it as one of the most positive, hopeful shifts to occur in decades, the armies of right-wing darkness are screaming their dread, scraping their nails on the chalkboard of fear, rallying the bitterly faithful.

Oh yes they are. This is the bad news. As you read these very words, shrill cultural conservatives from Orange County to Fresno to Stockton are holding meetings in all sorts of grungy subbasements and moldy rec rooms and sterile Holiday Inn conference rooms, sipping watery Sanka and sweating profusely in their armpits and scowling like angry cats as they work to put a quick and painful stop to all this gay-loving God-hating nonsense, by way of an initiative on the November ballot outlawing icky and confusing gay marriage, by constitutional decree, once and for all.

See? Same as it ever was: One beautiful step forward, one giant jackboot back.

Or is it? This is the big question now facing the intelligent and sex-positive world: Can they succeed? Will the forces of religious righteousness and repressed sexuality and violent Biblical misunderstanding be able to pull one last Rove-like maneuver out of the hat of conservative hate? Put more simply: Are the farm-belt minions still sufficiently scared of happy gay people in love?

It might not be such an easy trick this time. This is the good news. It is the twilight of the Bush Endtimes and the right wing hate machine is no longer the nasty Hummer of bloviated pain it once was. What's more, there's this pesky thing known as a $3 trillion war. There is brutal economic recession. There is environmental collapse. Really, who cares about happy gay people getting married when it costs 4 bucks a gallon to get to Wal-Mart? Priorities, people.

What's more, it was one thing for an uppity and slick San Francisco mayor to try and make a name for himself and enter the gay history books by allowing all those happy gay people to stand in the rain back in 2004 and get married in City Hall, only to have it all annuled by the courts.

But it is quite another when a powerhouse seven-member Supreme Court -- six of whom are moderate Repubicans -- of the largest and most potent state in the union says, hey, you know what? It appears we've had it wrong all along. It appears there is actually nothing the slightest bit wrong or unlawful or even dangerous about allowing people of the same gender to buy overpriced formalwear and drink way too much champagne and dance to crappy '80s power ballads in the Chardonnay Room of a low-rent winery up in Napa, and call it a wedding.

Who can argue with that? Hell, to this very day, cultural conservatives still have no idea exactly why they hate gay marriage. There is still zero articulation. There is a complete lack of fact or understanding and I have yet to meet a single person of any political stripe who can adequately explain exactly why gay marriage is so dangerous, or who's threatened, or how. Same as it ever was? Yes. Only now, their misunderstanding feels quite a bit less dangerous, and far more pathetic.

Meanwhile, the chocolate, whipped cream, ice sculpture, engraved invitation, lace, taffeta, silk, wedding chapel, tux rental, Elvis impersonator, wedding cake, folding lawn chair, large party tent, catering, floral arrangement, prenuptial attorney, divorce attorney, surrogate parent, and cutesy wedding shower gift bag industries are all simultaneously rejoicing at the prospect.

Think of it. Thousands of new weddings, a million new rehearsal dinner reservations, countless fresh registrations at regional Pottery Barns and Crate and Barrels, endless DJs replaying old Elton John and Celine Dion and Shrek soundtrack tunes. The sagging and desperate California economy is positively grinning at the idea, a grin which is right now going beautifully with the thousands of people already signing up for their ceremonies at city halls across the state.

Which means the only ones left still scowling, still bitter and miserable and unhappy about it all, are the ones who never understood much about love and progress in the first place. What a shame. They're gonna miss one hell of a reception. [/q]
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Old 05-16-2008, 01:56 PM   #132
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That is awesome!
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Old 05-16-2008, 02:17 PM   #133
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Sorry to rain on your parade but the 80 year old virgin needs to lay down some truth
Quote:
Pope Benedict, speaking a day after a California court ruled in favour of same-sex marriage, firmly restated on Friday the Roman Catholic Church's position that only unions between a man and a woman are moral.

Benedict made no mention of the California decision in his speech to family groups from throughout Europe, but stressed the Church's position several times.

"The union of love, based on matrimony between a man and a woman, which makes up the family, represents a good for all society that can not be substituted by, confused with, or compared to other types of unions," he said.

The pope also spoke of the inalienable rights of the traditional family, "founded on matrimony between a man and a woman, to be the natural cradle of human life".

On Thursday, the California Supreme Court overturned a ban on same-sex marriages in a major victory for gay rights advocates that will allow homosexual couples to marry in the most populous U.S. state.

Last year, Italy's powerful Catholic Church successfully campaigned against a law proposed by the previous centre-left government that would have given more rights to gay and unmarried couples.

The Roman Catholic Church teaches that homosexuality is not sinful but homosexual acts are, and is opposed to gays being allowed to adopt children.

The California court found laws limiting marriage to heterosexual couples are at odds with rights guaranteed by the state's constitution.

U.S. President George W. Bush, who is opposed to gay marriage, prayed "for the family" with the pope at the White House last month during the pontiff's visit there.

Last year, Cardinal Angelo Bagnasco, the head of the Italian Bishops Conference, made headlines with comments that critics said equated homosexuality with incest and paedophilia.

After he made the comments -- which Bagnasco said were misunderstood -- graffiti reading "Shame" and "Watch Out Bagnasco" appeared on the door of the cathedral in northern Genoa, where Bagnasco is archbishop.

The pope, who backed Bagnasco, will visit Genoa his weekend.

Opponents of gay marriage in the United States vowed to contest the ruling with a state-wide ballot measure for a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriages.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/UKNews1/idUKL1627550020080516

Who would have suspected that a religious leader would be a reactionary bigot.
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Old 05-16-2008, 02:21 PM   #134
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Who would have suspected that a religious leader would be a reactionary bigot.


maybe if he just clicks those fetching red Prada shoes he simply adores three times and starts repeating, "there's no place like California, there's no place like California ..."


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Old 05-16-2008, 02:26 PM   #135
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At least somebody took the time

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