Margaret Thatcher and the new conservatism (from 1975)

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Yes, of course. And China is always referred to as 'communist' by those who should - or more likely do - know better (media, politicians), so it's totally understandable. But there's absolutely nothing communist about China. Authortarian government of no particular ideology, and a wholly capitalist economy, simply continuing to give a shout out to 'communism' in it's branding (but you won't actually ever hear it from them), and it has in reality left no trace within their politics or economy for decades.
 
Anyway, both Reagan and Thatcher are hugely complicated. Anyone who thinks either are above criticism clearly have absolutely no - zero - understanding of the pickle we're all in today, or in the case of Reagan/US, the pickle your politics are in today. And anyone who thinks they were wholly the spawn of Satan also need to do a bit of a re-read. At the very least, Thatcher did claw Britain out of the dark, and Reagan was, at the very least, a great figurehead and 'leader' for the US, certainly re-established a great confidence in 'America'. But their actual achievements in office, and legacy beyond - complicated.


thank you.
 
It's interesting though that in the US, Reagan is deified, almost untouchable, with the mythology waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay beyond the reality (and in such a short time), while in the UK, you can pretty much only whisper Thatchers name, and to be tagged as a fan, or worse, 'Thatcherite'... Excuse me sir, I think you should leave.

Yes, and David Cameron's Conservative Party is avowedly not Thatcherite.
 
Coventry City won the FA Cup in what year? Che? Anyone? no, well I'm not surprised you didn't get it, it was in fact a trick question, Coventry City have never won the FA Cup.
 
I will not be seeing it. I do not think a Hollywood actress has the capability of portraying such a great lady.
 
So Thatcher and Reagan were responsible for the Soviet Union collapsing, then?

Funny, I thought it was the simple fact that a command economy doesn't fucking work.
 
I will not be seeing it. I do not think a Hollywood actress has the capability of portraying such a great lady.

Her performance is the main reason to see it.

Anyone seen The Iron Lady?

It's good. The events go by a little too quickly but the acting is astounding. I'll be annoyed if Streep doesn't get her third Oscar.
 
Never mind that, anybody seen the new best website ever? Is Margaret Thatcher Dead Yet?

I honestly thought she was :reject:. I freely confess to knowing barely anything about Thatcher, other than the fact that she was the British Prime Minister for the '80s and that a lot of people did not like her at all. I don't recall us ever really learning about her in school. Judging from the bare basics I understand of her policies, it doesn't sound like I would've likely supported her, either, would I have been old enough and living in Britain back then. But I suspect Earnie's assessment is spot on-as his posts often are :).

Honest questions: did most of the dislike of her come about because of her policies, or were there some who didn't like the idea of a woman being in such a high position of power? Or was it a mix of both? And does anyone think she felt she had to present herself as tougher in order to be taken more seriously?

Edited to add: Well, I just saw this online about her:

Thatcher was one of the few Conservative MPs to support Leo Abse's Bill to decriminalise male homosexuality[33] and voted in favour of David Steel's Bill to legalise abortion,

Pro-choice and pro-gay rights, so I wouldn't disagree with her there.
 
Pro-choice and pro-gay rights, so I wouldn't disagree with her there.

Most conservatives in the UK are pro-choice. A conservative politician is as likely to be pro-choice as a Labour politician. In so far as there are pro-life politicians in the UK (and frankly, there aren't many) many of them are left of centre on other issues. Indeed in 11 years of Margaret Thatcher's Conservative government, there was never a serious attempt to restrict abortion - if anything, the opposite.

Although Thatcher sometimes mentioned God and Christianity in her speeches (quoting the parable of the Good Samaritan on one occasion, for example) the religious right as a political force simply does not exist in Europe.
 
^ Well, that's a complicated issue. We could be here all day discussing that. Most European countries are "post-Christian" to a greater or lesser extent.

Incidentally, I was somewhat surprised to learn that Thatcher, as a young MP, voted for Leo Abse's bill, as her government was later accused of homophobia with regard to its Section 28 clause:


The amendment stated that a local authority "shall not intentionally promote homosexuality or publish material with the intention of promoting homosexuality" or "promote the teaching in any maintained school of the acceptability of homosexuality as a pretended family relationship".[2]

Section 28 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

However, that said, I never got the impression Thatcher particularly associated herself the clause but maybe gave way to right wing elements in her party who were never very happy with the decriminalisation of homosexuality in the first place.
 
^ Well, that's a complicated issue. We could be here all day discussing that. Most European countries are "post-Christian" to a greater or lesser extent.

That's true, and I certainly don't need this to delve into a discussion on THAT topic. I just find the difference interesting.

^ Incidentally, I was somewhat surprised to learn that Thatcher, as a young MP, voted for Leo Abse's bill, as her government was later accused of homophobia with regard to its Section 28 clause:

Section 28 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

However, that said, I never got the impression Thatcher particularly associated herself the clause but maybe gave way to right wing elements in her party who were never very happy with the decriminalisation of homosexuality in the first place.

Wouldn't surprise me. It sounds like, looking at that link, there was a lot of confusion and craziness over that whole issue.

It'll be so nice if/when we reach a day when that issue doesn't matter to anyone anymore.
 
I think it's worth seeing for the performance, don't see what's wrong with that. People spend money on much worse and much less.

I haven't seen My Week With Marilyn but I would see that just for Michelle Williams.
 
Thatcher and Reagan were political inevitabilities, considering the economic stagnation of the late 1970s. That being said, the economic stagnation of the late 2000s/early 2010s is the end game of their era, as lax regulation and low taxes are--surprise, surprise--going to lead to corrupt corporate behaviour and high national debts.

It's just a matter of finding that "middle ground" between the regulatory state and laissez-faire capitalism.
 
Better societies are always ones with more virtue. Any society that fosters more virtue will win. Markets that don't punish robbery and illegal behaviour won't last and governments that get too big and pressure for cronyism and nepotism will be replaced. The systems are too complex so it will have to be trial and error over and over again and hopefully with an enough educated populace we can avoid repeating mistakes. High taxes aren't the answer (because who trusts government to transfer the money to other than their staff?) We need to help those that can't help themselves but handouts to capable people fosters the opposite of virtue. Smart regulation and avoiding low interest rates for long stretches of time will smooth the cycles. The rest is up to US.
 
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