Manx teenagers are second worst binge drinkers in Europe

[MooMoo!]

Just behind Bulgaria, which was first.

I cant say I'm surprised, and it coincides nicely with the claim by a teacher that we had the highest chlamydia rate in Europe. Joy.

BBC NEWS | UK | Education | Teens put focus on alcohol prices


(If you dont know, Manx = From the Isle of Man, and the Isle of Man = Here)

 

[financeguy]

Ireland only 5th?

Obviously, we need to try harder.

 

[elevated_u2_fan]

I didn't know GAF was Bulgarian...

 

[yolland]

Strange, the article says Bulgaria was worst but the text box says Denmark?

It's funny, back when I was in college and grad school (and perhaps this is still common, I don't know) it was common to hear disdainful lectures directed at young people about how European youth never 'binge drink,' only Americans do this, Europeans are sophisticated and mature in their attitudes towards alcohol and practice the fine art of slowly savoring a few drinks and good conversation over the course of an evening, etc. The first time I was in the UK in the mid-90s, I remember walking down a busy street somewhere in central London--it wasn't even all that late at night yet--looking at all the young people spilling out of jam-packed bars onto the sidewalks and thinking, Hmmm, I dunno, a lot of these folks look pretty damn trashed to me. Now in the Mediterannean countries, maybe not so much, though I guess that could've just been a fluke of where I chose to walk at night.

Not a desire I can relate to; I enjoy a mild buzz every now and then, but for the most part I'm little attracted to alcohol and don't at all understand the appeal of getting just shitfaced drunk (or stoned, or whatever). Losing control of my mind is not a sensation I value.

 

[deep]

Strange, the article says Bulgaria was worst but the text box says Denmark?

drunk author

 

[Vincent Vega]

Beaten by the Austrians. WTF?

I wonder as well. Don't think Denmark is likely. Though on the other hand, out of the Scandinavian countries alcohol is cheapest and most easily accessible over there.

 

[Vincent Vega]

Strange, the article says Bulgaria was worst but the text box says Denmark?

It's funny, back when I was in college and grad school (and perhaps this is still common, I don't know) it was common to hear disdainful lectures directed at young people about how European youth never 'binge drink,' only Americans do this, Europeans are sophisticated and mature in their attitudes towards alcohol and practice the fine art of slowly savoring a few drinks and good conversation over the course of an evening, etc. The first time I was in the UK in the mid-90s, I remember walking down a busy street somewhere in central London--it wasn't even all that late at night yet--looking at all the young people spilling out of jam-packed bars onto the sidewalks and thinking, Hmmm, I dunno, a lot of these folks look pretty damn trashed to me. Now in the Mediterannean countries, maybe not so much, though I guess that could've just been a fluke of where I chose to walk at night.

Not a desire I can relate to; I enjoy a mild buzz every now and then, but for the most part I'm little attracted to alcohol and don't at all understand the appeal of getting just shitfaced drunk (or stoned, or whatever). Losing control of my mind is not a sensation I value.

In England they used to have official closing hours pretty early. So it became kind of a sport to drink as much as possible in as little time as possible.

From what I've experienced I guess the perception of the Europeans drinking more sophisticated might have to do with drinking age. While in most European countries drinking is legal from age 18, and underage drinking is not looked at as harshly as in the US, the young people start drinking at a younger age. By the time they reach the age of legal drinking many, not all, have learned how much and how fast they can drink and calm down a bit. They also lose interest in drinking til unconciousness. Americans seem to start later, often at age 18, and for them turning 21 is such a big event they shoot themselves with booze and grow out of that a little later.

Don't kill me for saying that, it's just the way I experienced it.
But what scared me more was drunk driving. From all my friends in Germany you wouldn't find someone who would drive a car after a session of serious binge drinking. In Missoula, however, I didn't find one person who didn't find it perfectly normal to drink more than I do in a whole year and then get in the car and drive either downtown or back home, with four to five passengers onboard.

 

[AliEnvy]

I grew up in Montreal where joie de vivre is enjoyed fully early on as the legal drinking age is also 18. Years ago my mom coped with empty nest syndrome by volunteering room and board to Irish teenagers on temporary work assignments as part of a government program.

I've done and seen more than my share in my time but I honestly have never witnessed their level of stamina before or since (I've never been to Ireland). Generally I would have thought that much alcohol consumed in such a short period of time by relatively petite girls would result in severe alcohol poisoning.

I can't really imagine what the clubs in Denmark (or Bulgaria) must be like lol.

 

[yolland]

Don't kill me for saying that, it's just the way I experienced it.

Oh, I've no particular attachment to our legal drinking age...you wouldn't hear any arguments from me if they lowered it. I think you're probably right that it tends to have the effect of drawing out the 'shoot themselves with booze' years. Though I think there's also a certain attitude here towards 'the college experience' that plays into it, too--that it's this glorious period of emancipation from parental supervision, and it's almost your duty to live as wild as you can handle for the next several years. For many, anyhow.

Interesting observation about the drunk driving...of course Americans are so much more car-centric to begin with, and also it wouldn't surprise me if nonchalance about drunk driving were even worse in a highly rural state like Montana. Back when I was a high school student in Mississippi, weekend-night 'entertainment' often meant about 10 of us packing into one person's car, driving down to the Mississippi which was maybe 45 minutes away (you just ignore the No Trespassing signs and drive right onto the levee), and hanging out drinking on the riverbank with the car radio blasting. There were never any police around, no one gave a shit. Then you all pack back into the car--which yes, most of its occupants are fairly drunk by now--and fly back down the Delta backroads at waaaay over the speed limit (no one ever gave a shit about that either)...

 

[financeguy]

It's funny, back when I was in college and grad school (and perhaps this is still common, I don't know) it was common to hear disdainful lectures directed at young people about how European youth never 'binge drink,' only Americans do this, Europeans are sophisticated and mature in their attitudes towards alcohol and practice the fine art of slowly savoring a few drinks and good conversation over the course of an evening, etc.

Southern Europe is genuinely like that (binge drinking or being seen drunk in public is not approved of in most parts of Italy, for example), all of the binge drinking countries are northern countries.

 

[yolland]

Found the full report:

ESPAD 2007 (.pdf) - see p. 4, column 3

Looks like it backs up what financeguy says. The 'drunk in past 12 months' rate for 15/16 year olds ranges from 8% (Armenia) to 73% (Denmark, though they do qualify in the text that the net sample from there was quite small).

 

[Vincent Vega]

Puts Denmark in a whole new perspective.



But then again, it's not only the older ones who come over the border, go to the border shops and pack their cars with as much alcohol as the trunk can handle.

Drunk driving has a little bit to do with education I think. Among those with lower degrees it seems to be more common. Those with higher degrees, or being in a higher school form, it is normal to either take a taxi back home or having a system like my father had with his friends. One person would drive, and the others would pay him all the non-alcoholic drinks. That way there was always a sober person.
Up until the 90s drunk driving was more common either. But it changed with the police doing more controls and there being more education on it.
I also wonder if there is a correlation between the age you are allowed to drive and the age you are allowed to drink. While in Europe you normally start drinking before you get your driver's license, in the US many teenagers have been driving cars for a couple years before they started drinking. Maybe that leaves them thinking they are experienced drivers, hence drinking can't compromise that ability, or something like that.

I guess for Germans it's rather the school years where you think you have to be wild. Later you are either going to University, or you are doing an apprenticeship. Though especially Uni is still rather "relaxed", you are generally much more matured and start to enjoy parties with a few drinks, not drinking until you pass out. By then, it's certainly not cool to tell how you shot yourself the other night, passed out and vomitted everywhere. People would just shake their head and tell you "That was cool when you were 14, now you should know better." In Missoula, most made it a big story how they don't remember their 21st birthday.

 

[blueeyedgirl]

Southern Europe is genuinely like that (binge drinking or being seen drunk in public is not approved of in most parts of Italy, for example), all of the binge drinking countries are northern countries.

I would agree with this, my family background is Southern European and on my visits there, I've never seen the sort of drunkeness you'd see in an Aussie city on a Sat night.

They're a bit lax on the driving after drinking thing, but then they don't like to follow rules much in regard to anything ie wearing crash helmets on your scooter gives you helmet hair and should therefore be avoided....

 

[Matchbox]

You know, I've always thought the ages for drinking and for driving should be reversed. Driving should be reserved for when the brain isn't frazzled by crazed hormones. Well, that and I've always thought it was unfair that we entrust people with the ability to kill people before we entrust them with the ability to at least take a drink before they do it. Besides, I'd rather a child of mine -- should I have any -- learn how to drink well before he gets to the 'big 21' thing, and give himself alcohol poisoning.

I remember being allowed to partake well before I turned 21. In very small doses, naturally, because I was a child. But by the time I turned 18, I could pour my own: my mother knew I'd never take more than a shot glass full, and only drink half of that. All day. It just didn't appeal to me. I got buzzed precisely once. And the nauseating feel of my swimming head was enough to convince me that it just wasn't a good idea. And I was 25-ish at the time. I was like, "Holy shit, this is not fun." And I wasn't even so drunk that I couldn't walk home and get into bed.

So yeah, there's something to be said for kids learning how to do some things far earlier than they're allowed to because people think they're 'too young', or whatever.

 

[Galeongirl]

Southern Europe is genuinely like that (binge drinking or being seen drunk in public is not approved of in most parts of Italy, for example), all of the binge drinking countries are northern countries.

Most definately true, it's mostly the mediterranean countries where it's a nono to be drunk in public. In countries like Italy, France or Spain you'll find that many young kids(I'm thinking ±age 12 here) are actually allowed to drink by their parents. Usually during dinner they get 1/2 glass of wine.

A lot of people claim this is ridiculous and it'll make the children alcoholics, but I disagree with that. It learns them that alcoholic beverage are to be savoured, not to be 'binged'. That it's a part of dinner rather than something to do at night with friends. I find that most people I've met from these countries are very responsible for their age, and I must say I grew up that way myself.

My parents are Dutch, but they're 'Francophiles' and drink wine with dinner and we eat a lot of mediterranean foods and such. I also got a sip of wine or beer when I was younger, and I must say I've never gone out of line with alcohol. I don't drink to get drunk, I have never even been drunk in my life(that doesn't mean I haven't tried). I don't even drink that much these days, only a beer occasionally and in weekends sometimes a glass of wine with dinner, but never on weekdays.

And ofcourse, low alcoholic beverages are available at 16 here, that's being frowned upon a lot too. Well, if something's illegal, it's somehow more fun to do. It puts off a lot of 16-17 year olds since it's not 'cool' anymore.
I don't even understand why kids do this binge drinking. How is it fun to drink yourself sick and puke your guts out and then wake up with a huge headache? Can't they have fun without alcohol anymore?

 

[last unicorn]

Beaten by the Austrians. WTF?

Yes, I heard that on the radio this morning.

Overweight children and drunk teenagers. What a nice country to live in.

I had an encounter last night in a train that makes me believe these results absolutely. I just thought: When I was that age, I didn't even know that alcohol even exists.

 

[yolland]

I guess for Germans it's rather the school years where you think you have to be wild. Later you are either going to University, or you are doing an apprenticeship. Though especially Uni is still rather "relaxed", you are generally much more matured and start to enjoy parties with a few drinks, not drinking until you pass out. By then, it's certainly not cool to tell how you shot yourself the other night, passed out and vomitted everywhere. People would just shake their head and tell you "That was cool when you were 14, now you should know better."

Which is probably how it should be. But I think for American parents, that would be a very tough adjustment, to get into the mindset that if their kids are going to have a "wild phase" when it comes to social drinking, then might as well have it be while they're still living in your home. There's a sense that any good, decent parent ought to be far more "in control" of their kids than that. Like, even with the weekend drinking back when I was in highschool in MS that I was describing earlier, my brothers and I might have ONE beer, but we never allowed ourselves to get visibly buzzed, because we knew we'd be in big trouble with our parents if we came home like that. And even though the whole thing was of course completely illegal--the underage drinking, the trespassing, the letting some fellow highschool student who might be pretty toasted drive you home--still, we'd look at the kids who often went home pretty soused from these outings, shake our heads and go, "Man, that's pretty sad that their folks don't even care." So much is about 'What will Mom and Dad think?', and that can pave the way for a kind of juvenile attitude later on (i.e., in your late teens and early 20s) of "Woo hoo! Now I can do whatever the fuck I want, and no one's there to stop me!" Which maybe plays into the drinking and driving thing, too, since that's also reckless behavior.

How is it fun to drink yourself sick and puke your guts out and then wake up with a huge headache?

I don't know about the Netherlands, but at least among traditional-aged college students in the US, what you see a lot are these big weekend parties where the express purpose and whole point is for basically everyone in attendance to get just staggering drunk. I never understood it either, but I don't think that kids who do this actually stop to ask themselves if they in fact consider the physical results of this routine "fun" or not--it's just something you do, a taken-for-granted part of the "college experience." There's something on the order of a kind of machismo about it.

 

[Galeongirl]

I don't know about the Netherlands, but at least among traditional-aged college students in the US, what you see a lot are these big weekend parties where the express purpose and whole point is for basically everyone in attendance to get just staggering drunk. I never understood it either, but I don't think that kids who do this actually stop to ask themselves if they in fact consider the physical results of this routine "fun" or not--it's just something you do, a taken-for-granted part of the "college experience." There's something on the order of a kind of machismo about it.

Well that's already very different here, since a lot of people who go to college and university still live at home. That's the benefit of a tiny country, we don't have university campus and such, you either live in a student flat/appartment or at home.
Ofcourse there are big parties here, but it's nothing compared to the things I heard about big college dorm parties. And yeah, our students are known for drinking a lot of beer, but that's just a tiny part of them.

Sounds 'fun'. I wonder if these kids ever thing about it at all. It sounds so odd that they just do this and not ask themselves what they're doing.
Ah well, I never understood the popular kids anyway.

 

[Vincent Vega]

It's somehow become part of growing up, so everyone does it.

No real parties in dorms. Too many minors around. Fraternities is where it's at. I haven't gone to one myself, but others did and they said it's exactly like in the movies. A bunch of drunk asses who can't stop until they fade.
Not my cup of tea either.

 

[Irvine511]

it's just something you do, a taken-for-granted part of the "college experience." There's something on the order of a kind of machismo about it.

yes, absolutely. i went to a hyper-competitive rural liberal arts school, and the motto was "work hard, play hard" -- it was absolutely a part of the lifestyle that was supposed to turn you as hard as New England granite. you'd wake up, you'd have a breakfast of beer and cornflakes, you'd do your sport, you'd go to class, you'd study all night, you'd party just as hard on Thursday, Friday, and Saturday nights. Sundays you'd spend reading or doing problem sets through the blinding hangover headache, and then you'd get up and do it all again. and amongst certain athletic teams, it was almost a competitive sport (within a competitive sport).

there's also the momentary pressure relief that binge drinking brings. you do forget about the pressure -- much of it self-induced pressure from being raised with high expectations -- for a few hours at least.

 

[MooMoo!]

I dont know about others, but I wouldnt go to uni to drink, or party, or whatever. Id go to learn. Maybe drink now and then, but I certainly wouldnt want it to be part and parcel of the experience, which worries me because I hear people saying when you start uni, that the best way to make friends is to go to all the freshman parties. I dont want to get shitfaced to make friends!


Also lol at the fact no-ones even mentioned the Isle of Man bar me.

 

[financeguy]

Which is probably how it should be. But I think for American parents, that would be a very tough adjustment, to get into the mindset that if their kids are going to have a "wild phase" when it comes to social drinking, then might as well have it be while they're still living in your home. There's a sense that any good, decent parent ought to be far more "in control" of their kids than that. Like, even with the weekend drinking back when I was in highschool in MS that I was describing earlier, my brothers and I might have ONE beer, but we never allowed ourselves to get visibly buzzed, because we knew we'd be in big trouble with our parents if we came home like that. And even though the whole thing was of course completely illegal--the underage drinking, the trespassing, the letting some fellow highschool student who might be pretty toasted drive you home--still, we'd look at the kids who often went home pretty soused from these outings, shake our heads and go, "Man, that's pretty sad that their folks don't even care." So much is about 'What will Mom and Dad think?', and that can pave the way for a kind of juvenile attitude later on (i.e., in your late teens and early 20s) of "Woo hoo! Now I can do whatever the fuck I want, and no one's there to stop me!" Which maybe plays into the drinking and driving thing, too, since that's also reckless behavior.

I don't know about the Netherlands, but at least among traditional-aged college students in the US, what you see a lot are these big weekend parties where the express purpose and whole point is for basically everyone in attendance to get just staggering drunk. I never understood it either, but I don't think that kids who do this actually stop to ask themselves if they in fact consider the physical results of this routine "fun" or not--it's just something you do, a taken-for-granted part of the "college experience." There's something on the order of a kind of machismo about it.

It's genetic/anthrological, I'm convinced of it. Statistically I'd bet that the majority of students in US universities, especially those who binge drink, are of North European origin. Partially, of course, behaviour is learned, so I'm sure that Asian students sometimes binge drink. For example, I have seen Asian students binge drinking in Ireland (picking up the local habit), but the majority of Asians do not.

 

[Liesje]

I was careful in college, but probably b/c my uncle is an alcoholic and I find it absolutely pathetic and disgusting. I know it can run in families, I don't know how it works or how close you have to be related but seeing how he acts and has gambled with death and the lives of others, that is close enough for me and I've never had more than 2 drinks at a time. I don't really care what others do for fun and have friends that can drink a lot more before they are effected, it's just something I vowed never to mess around with. That, and I could never afford to binge drink! I've gone, and still go out, with friends and such but it just isn't an issue if I have 1 or no drinks and they have 3 or so. I've never really been in a situation where the sole purpose was to get puke-sick passed out drunk (we always "went out" for drinks, not to college parties).

 

[yolland]

It's genetic/anthrological, I'm convinced of it. Statistically I'd bet that the majority of students in US universities, especially those who binge drink, are of North European origin.

Hmmm, 'genetic' and 'anthropological' suggest two pretty different things though. There are studies I've seen brief reports on comparing (US) students' drinking behavior along ethnoracial lines--that 'Asian' students binge-drink much less than 'white' students; that 'Hispanic' students binge-drink somewhat more than 'Asians' but still much less than 'whites'; that 'black' students binge-drink least of all--but, other than one study I read about which found that Jewish students (ethnically, not religiously, self-defined) binge-drink considerably less than other 'whites', I've never heard of any studies attempting to parse these very broad social categories more finely. And I'd imagine it'd be very difficult to do so here, since for instance at this point a strong majority of white Americans have multiple European ancestries--including many who nonetheless choose to identify specifically as 'Irish-American,' 'Polish-American' or whatever (often based on the particular ancestry signaled by their father's surname, or the predominant ancestry in the community they live in, or their favorite relative's main ancestry, or whatever).

There are a few genes which have been written about as apparently being correlated with binge-drinking behavior, too--alcohol metabolizing genes, serotonin transport genes and so forth (for instance, East Asians are apparently disproportionally likely to have what's considered the 'protective' form of a gene slowing alcohol metabolization, which also tends to visibly announce its presence in the form of particularly intense 'blushing' upon alcohol consumption). But culture and its transmission can be a very subtle thing too, and it's not necessarily just 'obvious' stuff like religious taboos that might affect drinking; attitudes about desirable modes of 'bonding' with friends, respectable social self-presentation, and so on which aren't at all necessarily specifically about drinking might nonetheless strongly affect it.

Also lol at the fact no-ones even mentioned the Isle of Man bar me.

Well, true...but you are probably the only one even remotely qualified to say anything knowledgeable about youth drinking habits on the Isle of Man... I'd love to hike there someday if I get the chance but to date have never been, sadly.

 

[BVS]

There are a few genes which have been written about as apparently being correlated with binge-drinking behavior, too--alcohol metabolizing genes, serotonin transport genes and so forth (for instance, East Asians are apparently disproportionally likely to have what's considered the 'protective' form of a gene slowing alcohol metabolization, which also tends to visibly announce its presence in the form of particularly intense 'blushing' upon alcohol consumption).

This is a very interesting subject... One that a professor of mine is College was actually doing research on. It's been awhile since I've caught up on this subject but at the time there was a lot speculation that Asians had genes that metabolized alcohol much differently than most. There were even theories that Asians could not develop a physical addiction to alcohol... This thread makes me want to catch up with my professor's studies...

 

[Vincent Vega]

It's genetic/anthrological, I'm convinced of it. Statistically I'd bet that the majority of students in US universities, especially those who binge drink, are of North European origin. Partially, of course, behaviour is learned, so I'm sure that Asian students sometimes binge drink. For example, I have seen Asian students binge drinking in Ireland (picking up the local habit), but the majority of Asians do not.

I was good friends with a bunch of Japanese ("You are German? " ), and yes, the two beers have been binge drinking for them.

I know the Isle of Man only from the motorbike race.

 

[The Sad Punk]

I've never been to the fatherisland, but if the stories I've been told of what goes down in the UK are anything to go by (merely drinking wise, and not saying that there is a higher count of alcoholism over there than there is here, more to do with drinking culture), then I wouldn't be surprised if it's amplified in a nearby country of a much smaller population.

Hey MooMoo, are you ethnically Manx, or just living on the island?

 

[Liesje]

Yolland, I get that too though I am not at all Asian. Yet another reason I don't like to drink a lot (or even drink a little too fast). My face turns red and it burns, so I feel really hot like my face is on fire. The redness subsides, but it's still uncomfortable. This weekend I had one margarita that I drank too fast and my face was on fire.

 

[A stor]

Strange, the article says Bulgaria was worst but the text box says Denmark?

It's funny, back when I was in college and grad school (and perhaps this is still common, I don't know) it was common to hear disdainful lectures directed at young people about how European youth never 'binge drink,' only Americans do this, Europeans are sophisticated and mature in their attitudes towards alcohol and practice the fine art of slowly savoring a few drinks and good conversation over the course of an evening, etc. The first time I was in the UK in the mid-90s, I remember walking down a busy street somewhere in central London--it wasn't even all that late at night yet--looking at all the young people spilling out of jam-packed bars onto the sidewalks and thinking, Hmmm, I dunno, a lot of these folks look pretty damn trashed to me. Now in the Mediterannean countries, maybe not so much, though I guess that could've just been a fluke of where I chose to walk at night.

Not a desire I can relate to; I enjoy a mild buzz every now and then, but for the most part I'm little attracted to alcohol and don't at all understand the appeal of getting just shitfaced drunk (or stoned, or whatever). Losing control of my mind is not a sensation I value.

Same here, a glass of red wine or a cold glass of beer is fine, now and then. I know Europe has a lower legal age, than the United States. And I don't know how bad "binge drinking" is here. But, I suspect with college students it can be out of control.

 

[MooMoo!]

I've never been to the fatherisland, but if the stories I've been told of what goes down in the UK are anything to go by (merely drinking wise, and not saying that there is a higher count of alcoholism over there than there is here, more to do with drinking culture), then I wouldn't be surprised if it's amplified in a nearby country of a much smaller population.

Hey MooMoo, are you ethnically Manx, or just living on the island?

Nah, I moved here when I was 9, we used to come here on holiday so it seemed like a good idea at the time. Im from Liverpool originally.

Well, true...but you are probably the only one even remotely qualified to say anything knowledgeable about youth drinking habits on the Isle of Man... I'd love to hike there someday if I get the chance but to date have never been, sadly.

Its pretty good for walking and stuff. Theres only one mountain that can be legally (is it legally or scientifically?) classed as a mountain, but its still pretty lumpy in places to make for a fulfilling hiking experience.

BTW, did you get your name from a book called Translations by any chance?