Just curious, Irvine. Have you ever changed your mind on a political position? Especially a hot button item like abortion, gay marriage, war, education....something like that?
my political beliefs have been pretty consistent since i was 17 or 18 years old, the main difference is that i keep them to myself pretty much everywhere but in here. i find that it's really unproductive to have political discussions in real life, either because people get really heated and angry with each other, or, in order to be nice, they find fake points of agreement for the sake of harmony. in many ways, i think this is one of the best things about the internet -- you have to really write to defend yourself in a forum, and you have to cite your sources, etc.
what's changed is that i think i'm much less idealistic than i used to be, and i think i see the downsides to my "positions" more than in the past, but i can't think of a major hot button issue that i've changed my mind on. however, i do think i say more, "yes, but ..." than i might have in the past. so, for example, while i might say that the ACA can and will likely work, i don't think it's the best solution to the health care crisis, but i do think it's the best one that's possible. does that make sense?
I went away from the forum for several reasons (military service, work related travel, constant antagonism toward anything that even hinted "conservative") - but since returning I've more or less enjoyed the "vibe" here. We had some heated discussions about the Zimmerman trial, but I saw a lot give and take on the surrounding issues of the case.
i'm glad you're back. i really am.
Facebook is not a great place for political discussions - in my experience.
i couldn't agree more. my FB page is almost devoid of politics, and it's very, very rare that i get political on someone else's page. it's happened, and i almost always regret it. i've even been unfriended, but that was someone worth losing.
Irvine - I'm not sure that most people see these discussions as a "win/lose" as much as a chance to share/learn/understand. Have you ever lost a debate here? Are you undefeated? Is every "liberal" stance an automatic win?
i think you make a good point. i don't think we're well served when we try to "win." i know i'm guilty of this, but i can''t help it sometimes, and it often depends on the topic. so when it feels like life or death, or if a comment feels particularly offensive, or often (and especially) when there's little time, the HULK SMASH comes out. though i think there's ample evidence that i can and do engage in much, much more than that. but on some topics, there is very little grey area for me.
yes, i feel like we've "won" on SSM. i feel as if we've "won" on the Iraq War. i think we've "won" when it comes to torture.
have i "lost"? well, that plays back into the narrative we'd probably all do best to avoid. i really can't say, i know i've admitted being wrong about certain things, but specifics are hard to come by. i'm sure there are posters who think i'm always wrong -- you could ask them.
i will also say that i think there are posters, many now gone, who were much more effective at advocating their positions that i've ever been or will ever be. i think yolland, A_W, melon, sean, and anitram are as good as the forum gets, and i think they all do a better job than i do.
To solve this, perhaps it's better to not call someone a name to begin with, and try to see where they are coming from.
i don't agree. to say, "there's racism in that statement" is different than saying, "you're a racist," and for someone to respond with, "don't call me a racist" is a way of avoiding the uncomfortable but very real truth that race, class, and gender all play their part in everyday life. one doesn't need to use the n-word to make a racist comment, and because one makes a racist comment doesn't mean that one is a racist. it's not only racists who sometimes say racist things.