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Old 11-21-2013, 04:26 PM   #511
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Only 7% of Americans want to keep Obamacare in place.

Good think the President forced a government shutdown to keep his law in place.
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Old 11-21-2013, 04:39 PM   #512
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This

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Originally Posted by nbcrusader View Post
Only 7% of Americans want to keep Obamacare in place.
AND THIS

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just 7 percent said the Affordable Care Act should be left in place without any changes.
is not the same thing, and to suggest otherwise would be flat out false. And you know it.

No one ever said the ACA is perfect, and that poll number indicates that. People want to see it improved, rather than repeal it completely.
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Old 11-21-2013, 05:02 PM   #513
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nbcrusader View Post
Only 7% of Americans want to keep Obamacare in place.

Good think the President forced a government shutdown to keep his law in place.
I don't recall you being so prone to wildly inaccurate statements in the past. Both of these statements are flat out false. BoMac pointed out the first, and I simply cannot see how anyone with an interest in objectivity could make the claim that it was the President who forced the shutdown.

How disappointing.
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Old 11-21-2013, 05:05 PM   #514
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It's the Drudge effect...
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Old 11-21-2013, 09:21 PM   #515
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You know, when I started posting in FYM people spoke of the good ol' days when there were legitimate conservative arguments on this board and often cited posters like NBCrusader as one of the best examples. But I haven't noticed much of a sea change with his return. Is there something different in the posting style or was it simply romanticizing the past? Genuinely curious, since I wasn't around for the first stint.
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Old 11-21-2013, 09:33 PM   #516
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NBCrusader is an intelligent, thoughtful contributor. His absence was certainly felt. Like all of us, he can sometimes post a small quip/meme/headline here and there to get the conversation rolling. He is also capable a few paragraphs of insight when called upon to do so.
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Old 11-21-2013, 09:39 PM   #517
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You know, when I started posting in FYM people spoke of the good ol' days when there were legitimate conservative arguments on this board and often cited posters like NBCrusader as one of the best examples. But I haven't noticed much of a sea change with his return. Is there something different in the posting style or was it simply romanticizing the past? Genuinely curious, since I wasn't around for the first stint.
I remember NBCrusader as being good, nice and a gentleman. He didn't seem obsessed with despising liberals nor did he lean toward trollish behavior by frequently posting links about how America was headed in the wrong direction. I also do not remember him ever being condescending toward anyone for any reason. In fact, he was the antithesis of condescending behavior and was the nice one if anyone was harsh to him. Now he's a very different person. It's disappointing and bewildering.
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Old 11-21-2013, 09:41 PM   #518
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NBCrusader is an intelligent, thoughtful contributor. His absence was certainly felt. Like all of us, he can sometimes post a small quip/meme/headline here and there to get the conversation rolling. He is also capable a few paragraphs of insight when called upon to do so.
He was. I haven't seen that since his return.
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Old 11-21-2013, 10:03 PM   #519
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He was. I haven't seen that since his return.
I don't know - I've seen some great posts (even if I didn't agree with them).

Some of these headline type of posts do have that "lone voice in the Wilderness" sense to them, but I think that's to be expected. It's exhausting going against the grain in every single thread...
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Old 11-21-2013, 10:15 PM   #520
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Originally Posted by AEON View Post
I don't know - I've seen some great posts (even if I didn't agree with them).

Some of these headline type of posts do have that "lone voice in the Wilderness" sense to them, but I think that's to be expected. It's exhausting going against the grain in every single thread...
NB sounds more like a disgruntled Tea Party supporter to me. And he has made comments toward some posters that were very harsh, totally unlike the NB I remember.

NB, since you will read this, I just hope I can see that kind person again. It's not pleasant to see someone lose their shining quality.

I'll say no more, because this is discussion isn't cool and NB isn't here now to speak for himself. Enough for me.
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Old 11-22-2013, 01:54 PM   #521
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Originally Posted by AEON View Post
I don't know - I've seen some great posts (even if I didn't agree with them).

Some of these headline type of posts do have that "lone voice in the Wilderness" sense to them, but I think that's to be expected. It's exhausting going against the grain in every single thread...
Exhausting and frustrating.

To address the specific point in this thread

When summarizing a statistic in a poll that, by any objective measure, shows a very dim view of Obamacare - and that is deemed "wildly inaccurate" (by a moderator!) because it didn't include the qualifying statement "without any changes" is just an age old dodge that ignores the core of the post and flow of discussion.

As for the government shutdown, a President refusing to negotiate with Congress is not an innocent party in the event. Delaying the individual mandate would have given the administration time to get a working website and perhaps address the fallout from all the policy cancellations. As they say, Pride comes before the Fall and Obama's insistence that the individual mandate go forward on October 1 has led directly to the dismal view of Obamacare today.

One the broader topic:

When I originally joined Interference, it was a place where people with a great love of U2 could chat about a variety of topics including politics, religion, television, food, etc. The common bond of U2 brought together a very diverse collection of people from across the globe. We even had gift exchanges. And FYM was far more active. Threads use to address narrow issues which helped in keeping everyone on topic and sincere in the discussion.

Things changed over time. Religious conversations in the Goal Is Soul were eventually moved to FYM (the fairly calm theological discussion among Christians were now frequently subject to harsh secular scrutiny). Politics became more partisan, to the point that nearly identical fact patterns could result in wildly different conclusions simply based on party affiliation.

Today, I find many thread to be little more than a shout down of opposing views, where slapping labels of racism, sexism, lack of compassion, etc. on the non-conforming member takes the replace of thoughtful debate.

I had the great pleasure of meeting Dreadsox (another old school Interference member and significant FYM contributor) for the first time a couple months back (how we ran into each other was nothing short of amazing). I asked him why he was no longer active in this forum (we often disagreed on subjects, but could gain a much better understanding of each other, our positions and our rational through our discussions). He simply said the debate was gone.

I have to agree with him. I miss the family we once had.

PS - If someone takes personal offense to how I phrase something - send me a PM. I am more than happy to discuss the matter with you.
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Old 11-22-2013, 01:59 PM   #522
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nbcrusader View Post
Exhausting and frustrating.

To address the specific point in this thread

When summarizing a statistic in a poll that, by any objective measure, shows a very dim view of Obamacare - and that is deemed "wildly inaccurate" (by a moderator!) because it didn't include the qualifying statement "without any changes" is just an age old dodge that ignores the core of the post and flow of discussion.
Had you stated "only 7% want Obamacare to stay without any changes," we wouldn't be having this discussion, but omitting those 3 words entirely change the meaning of that statistic, and yes, it does makes your statement wildly inaccurate. To suggest that your omission doesn't change the meaning is patently false.

Quote:
As for the government shutdown, a President refusing to negotiate with Congress is not an innocent party in the event.
From the President's point of view, what was there to negotiate on? What were the Republicans bringing to the table? Their entire negotiating tactic was "do what we say and we avoid a shutdown." That was it. That's not a negotiation, that's extortion.
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Old 11-22-2013, 02:05 PM   #523
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I wonder how many of the people who want Obamacare changed want something more like other western countries. That number is being thrown out as if 93 percent of people just want things back to the way things were.
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Old 11-22-2013, 02:08 PM   #524
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diemen View Post
Had you stated "only 7% want Obamacare to stay without any changes," we wouldn't be having this discussion, but omitting those 3 words entirely change the meaning of that statistic, and yes, it does makes your statement wildly inaccurate. To suggest that your omission doesn't change the meaning is patently false.
Because words matter.
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Old 11-22-2013, 02:32 PM   #525
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Thumbs Up

Quote:
Originally Posted by nbcrusader View Post
Exhausting and frustrating.

To address the specific point in this thread

When summarizing a statistic in a poll that, by any objective measure, shows a very dim view of Obamacare - and that is deemed "wildly inaccurate" (by a moderator!) because it didn't include the qualifying statement "without any changes" is just an age old dodge that ignores the core of the post and flow of discussion.

As for the government shutdown, a President refusing to negotiate with Congress is not an innocent party in the event. Delaying the individual mandate would have given the administration time to get a working website and perhaps address the fallout from all the policy cancellations. As they say, Pride comes before the Fall and Obama's insistence that the individual mandate go forward on October 1 has led directly to the dismal view of Obamacare today.

One the broader topic:

When I originally joined Interference, it was a place where people with a great love of U2 could chat about a variety of topics including politics, religion, television, food, etc. The common bond of U2 brought together a very diverse collection of people from across the globe. We even had gift exchanges. And FYM was far more active. Threads use to address narrow issues which helped in keeping everyone on topic and sincere in the discussion.

Things changed over time. Religious conversations in the Goal Is Soul were eventually moved to FYM (the fairly calm theological discussion among Christians were now frequently subject to harsh secular scrutiny). Politics became more partisan, to the point that nearly identical fact patterns could result in wildly different conclusions simply based on party affiliation.

Today, I find many thread to be little more than a shout down of opposing views, where slapping labels of racism, sexism, lack of compassion, etc. on the non-conforming member takes the replace of thoughtful debate.

I had the great pleasure of meeting Dreadsox (another old school Interference member and significant FYM contributor) for the first time a couple months back (how we ran into each other was nothing short of amazing). I asked him why he was no longer active in this forum (we often disagreed on subjects, but could gain a much better understanding of each other, our positions and our rational through our discussions). He simply said the debate was gone.

I have to agree with him. I miss the family we once had.

PS - If someone takes personal offense to how I phrase something - send me a PM. I am more than happy to discuss the matter with you.
Wonderful post NB!
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