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Old 10-29-2013, 11:13 AM   #466
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Ya'all need a single payer system.

PacMule, that sounds terrible. Am I understanding your post correctly, that you're a disabled veteran? If so I actually find it appalling you should have any out of pocket expenses at all - the least that the government should do is provide you with free healthcare.
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Old 10-29-2013, 12:31 PM   #467
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Thanks everybody. I may be able to use the VA as a form of healthcare coverage, they just opened a new clinic near where I live so I'll have somewhere to go.

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Ya'all need a single payer system.
Vermont basically already had a single payer system and it worked great here. Anyone could get affordable health care based on their income. But now many of the low income health care plans are being cancelled, and it's bullshit because there was nothing wrong with these plans. They were essentially just standard comprehensive health care plans, with the state subsidizing most of the premium depending on your income. And the most important thing about them was a low annual general medical deductible, which you can't get now.
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Old 10-29-2013, 09:40 PM   #468
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Imagine, now, a much simpler system in which the government just pays your major medical expenses.
Imagine having no recourse if the “single-payer” denies your operation.

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Of course, we don’t have to imagine such a system, because it already exists. It’s called Medicare
Nevermind that the governemnt’s trustee reports that Medicare becomes insolvent in 2026. Nevermind the reported $250 billion of outright fraud in the system. Nevermind that doctors are fleeing from the program.
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Old 10-29-2013, 09:58 PM   #469
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About 50% to 75% of 14 million consumers who buy health insurance individually will receive a "cancellation" letter or its equivalent in the next year because their current policies don't meet the standards laid out by the new law, the news organization reports, citing four sources deeply involved in ACA.

Of those who will be forced to buy new insurance, many will face huge price increases, NBC reports.
NBC alleges the administration knew that up to 67% of customers on the individual market could have their policies canceled, but instead, President Obama said as recently as in 2012, "If (you) already have health insurance, you will keep your health insurance."
Let's play Karnac.

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"If you like your health insurance you can keep it. Period"

"The average family will see their premiums lowered by $2500."

"The Affordable Care Act will not add oine dime to the debt."

"Indiana will win the 2013 NCAA Basketball championship."
Name three lies to the American people and a terrible sports prediction.
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Old 10-29-2013, 10:30 PM   #470
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Imagine having no recourse if the “single-payer” denies your operation.
When does this happen?
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Old 10-31-2013, 09:25 PM   #471
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Obama Officials In 2010: 93 Million Americans Will Be Unable To Keep Their Health Plans Under Obamacare - Forbes

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Obama Officials In 2010: 93 Million Americans Will Be Unable To Keep Their Health Plans Under Obamacare

Section 1251 of the Affordable Care Act contains what’s called a “grandfather” provision that, in theory, allows people to keep their existing plans if they like them. But subsequent regulations from the Obama administration interpreted that provision so narrowly as to prevent most plans from gaining this protection.

“The Departments’ mid-range estimate is that 66 percent of small employer plans and 45 percent of large employer plans will relinquish their grandfather status by the end of 2013,” wrote the administration on page 34,552 of the Register. All in all, more than half of employer-sponsored plans will lose their “grandfather status” and become illegal. According to the Congressional Budget Office, 156 million Americans—more than half the population—was covered by employer-sponsored insurance in 2013.

Another 25 million people, according to the CBO, have “nongroup and other” forms of insurance; that is to say, they participate in the market for individually-purchased insurance. In this market, the administration projected that “40 to 67 percent” of individually-purchased plans would lose their Obamacare-sanctioned “grandfather status” and become illegal, solely due to the fact that there is a high turnover of participants and insurance arrangements in this market. (Plans purchased after March 23, 2010 do not benefit from the “grandfather” clause.) The real turnover rate would be higher, because plans can lose their grandfather status for a number of other reasons.

How many people are exposed to these problems? 60 percent of Americans have private-sector health insurance—precisely the number that Jay Carney dismissed. As to the number of people facing cancellations, 51 percent of the employer-based market plus 53.5 percent of the non-group market (the middle of the administration’s range) amounts to 93 million Americans.
Now you know why the employer mandate was postponed one year.

But it's the law of of the land !!
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Old 10-31-2013, 10:11 PM   #472
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It appears to me that the ACA may be Obama's Iraq War: His signature achievement that went horribly wrong.
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Old 11-01-2013, 02:29 AM   #473
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It appears to me that the ACA may be Obama's Iraq War: His signature achievement that went horribly wrong.
The politics of doing it when they did it was the worst political decision made during his first term. That it later became a terrible piece of legislation made it even worse. That it has become a nightmare to implement in his 2nd term probably means that you are exactly right.
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Old 11-01-2013, 09:18 AM   #474
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It appears to me that the ACA may be Obama's Iraq War: His signature achievement that went horribly wrong.
I agree. Its a big disappointment.
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Old 11-01-2013, 09:26 PM   #475
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The "If you like your insurance you can keep it" is perhaps the equivalent of "mission accomplished." :smh:
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Old 11-02-2013, 08:46 AM   #476
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INDY and other conservatives, I have a question for you: which would you prefer, the Affordable Care Act or a single-payer system? I assume that you detest the idea of either, but which is the lesser of two evils?
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Old 11-02-2013, 11:42 AM   #477
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It appears to me that the ACA may be Obama's Iraq War: His signature achievement that went horribly wrong.
Minus the thousands of deaths and all
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Old 11-02-2013, 08:48 PM   #478
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INDY and other conservatives, I have a question for you: which would you prefer, the Affordable Care Act or a single-payer system? I assume that you detest the idea of either, but which is the lesser of two evils?
Both are unworkable (in a vast country of 300+ million citizens and open borders), will lower the quality of healthcare as well as being unconstitutional (unless you believe the Supreme Court has the enumerated power to rewrite legislation).

What is the lesser of two "evils" to our liberal friends? The ACA or tort and free-market reform?
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Old 11-02-2013, 09:21 PM   #479
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Both are unworkable (in a vast country of 300+ million citizens and open borders), will lower the quality of healthcare as well as being unconstitutional (unless you believe the Supreme Court has the enumerated power to rewrite legislation).

What is the lesser of two "evils" to our liberal friends? The ACA or tort and free-market reform?
Do you find them equally bad, or is one even marginally preferable over the other to you? I realize that you find them both unpalatable. I'm not trying to bate you into saying something that I'll later attack; I'm genuinely interested to hear your answer, because I don't know how I'd feel if I were a conservative.

I personally lean towards the ACA, because I think that, in general, universal access to healthcare is a good thing for countries to have. But I'm not one hundred percent positive that I am right about that, and I am not one hundred percent positive that the ACA won't be a disaster. The website issues, while problematic, are relatively meaningless for the long-term success of the act. What concerns me much more are stories like those of The_Pac_Mule, and, especially, the possibility that a lot of people will pay the fee to the IRS rather than buying health insurance, which could cause an epic mess.
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Old 11-02-2013, 11:23 PM   #480
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It is astounding to me that you can look at other western democracies and then conclude that the ACA is better than universal healthcare. There is just such a complete disconnect from the reality of other experiences that I can't even begin to explain it.

If you guys had what the rest of the free world has for just a week, you'd never go back.
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