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Old 08-18-2012, 03:53 PM   #391
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And where does it speak to the "right" to free contraception? Free being a misnomer since others would be forced to pay for it, possibly against the teachings of their faith.


where do you have the right to refuse to cover certain medications and not others? you're not buying it outright, nor are you using it yourself. what gives you the right to determine what is and what is not appropriate for someone else's health?
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Old 08-18-2012, 04:52 PM   #392
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where do you have the right to refuse to cover certain medications and not others? you're not buying it outright, nor are you using it yourself. what gives you the right to determine what is and what is not appropriate for someone else's health?
Have you forgotten that private healthcare companies, Medicaid, Medicare and the VA all have drug formularies?

What is the moral argument that because something is medically appropriate it follows that someone else is obligated to pay for it?
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Old 08-18-2012, 04:59 PM   #393
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Have you forgotten that private healthcare companies, Medicaid, Medicare and the VA all have drug formularies?

What is the moral argument that because something is medically appropriate it follows that someone else is obligated to pay for it?

Obligated to pay for it? That's a convenient formulation.
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Old 08-18-2012, 07:28 PM   #394
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Further, where does it end? What other treatments can I refuse to cover because I find immoral?
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Old 08-21-2012, 10:24 PM   #395
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Further, where does it end? What other treatments can I refuse to cover because I find immoral?
Just a reminder, I'm the guy who thought "healthcare reform" should include severing health insurance from the workplace making discussions such as this moot. Your guy went the other way however. Less choice, less competition, more rules, more taxes and more Barack Obama in our lives.
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Old 08-22-2012, 06:51 AM   #396
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Just a reminder, I'm the guy who thought "healthcare reform" should include severing health insurance from the workplace making discussions such as this moot. Your guy went the other way however. Less choice, less competition, more rules, more taxes and more Barack Obama in our lives.
Except that's been proven not to work. Your way would create the same amount of rules, same choice, same lobbying collectivism among companies, and less actual healthcare for human beings.
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Old 10-21-2012, 03:40 PM   #397
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New England Journal of Medicine Blasts Obamacare
Friday, 19 Oct 2012 01:36 PM By Nick Tate

Obamacare will do little to address two of the three major problems facing the U.S. healthcare system — holding down costs and boosting the quality of care for patients, according to a scathing article published in this week’s prestigious New England Journal of Medicine.

The “perspective” piece notes that while the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act is likely to address the third major challenge facing healthcare — expanding coverage to uninsured Americans — the goals of addressing costs and quality “remain aspirations and promises” without much else in the way of detailed provisions or proposals.

“Although the ACA expands coverage, it ignores the structural problems in the organization and reimbursement of care — a limitation that is disappointing but not surprising,” said the editorial’s author Gail Wilensky, an economist and a senior fellow at Project HOPE, an international health education foundation. “Adding more people to the insurance rolls is politically and technically easier than finding a way to ensure that care is effective, high-quality, and affordable for both the recipients and taxpayers.”

Wilensky said Obamacare’s primary accomplishment is likely to be that some 30 million previously uninsured people may end up with coverage — about half through new state insurance exchanges and the other half through Medicaid expansions.” But she argues the law's controversial individual mandate — requiring all Americans to have insurance coverage or to pay a penalty tax of several hundred dollars — may instead encourage people to postpone buying insurance until they need it. That’s because insurers will not be able to refuse coverage to people with pre-existing conditions, or charge them higher rates.

The non-partisan Congressional Budget Office has projected about 11-12 million Americans will be subject to the individual mandate’s penalties — and half will simply opt to pay the tax.

Among the other key points of the editorial:

MEDICARE CUTS: Obamacare provides Medicare “productivity adjustments,” but unless these institutions find ways to reduce costs, lower Medicare reimbursements will force providers to bargain for higher payments from private insurers. “Eventually, seniors' access to services will be threatened,” she said. “The Medicare actuary expects that 15 percent of institutional providers will lose money on their Medicare business by 2019, and the proportion will increase to 25 percent by 2030.”

NO MARKET-BASED REFORMS: Like Medicare, Obamacare relies on regulatory methods, instead of harnessing market forces, to promote spending reductions and improve quality of care. If that approach fails, the law authorizes an Independent Payment Advisory Board to reduce payments to clinicians and institutions. Although Congress can override the IPAB's recommendations, it can do so only by a three-fifth’s “super majority,” and only if it acts within a limited time and comes up with comparable savings.

“What is needed are reforms that create clear financial incentives that promote value over volume, with active engagement by both consumers and the healthcare sector,” Wilensky added. “Market-friendly reforms require empowering individuals, armed with good information and non-distorting subsidies, to choose the type of Medicare delivery system they want.”
Is anyone surprised that in the center-piece of his presidency Barack “I believe that the free enterprise system is the greatest engine of prosperity the world’s ever known” Obama went with more bureaucratic control and government regulation rather than market-based reforms and individual empowerment?
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Old 10-21-2012, 05:38 PM   #398
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The reason why most of the developed world has cheaper health care than the US does is because single payer health care systems have monopsony buying power... also known as "government bureaucracy".
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Old 10-21-2012, 09:48 PM   #399
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The reason why most of the developed world has cheaper health care than the US does is because single payer health care systems have monopsony buying power... also known as "government bureaucracy". price controls... also known as rationing.
Fixed.
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Old 10-21-2012, 09:56 PM   #400
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Actually, that's not what monopsony is, and that's a wild misrepresentation of health care in the rest of the developed world. Moreover, even if government-funded health care did have "rationing"... so? It's just what the government pays for. People could still supplement by paying for their own care, just like what happens in the US now for our entire system.
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Old 10-22-2012, 12:06 AM   #401
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BCBS sure does seem to ration the care I get, and they're also my death panel.

But, hey, better than Barry O, amirite?
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Old 10-22-2012, 01:18 PM   #402
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Free market death panels are all part of American Exceptionalism!
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Old 10-22-2012, 02:25 PM   #403
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"Obamacare will do little to address two of the three major problems facing the U.S. healthcare system — holding down costs and boosting the quality of care for patients, according to a scathing article published in this week’s prestigious New England Journal of Medicine."

I was just making the same observation to my wife, as we deal with the huge medical costs involved with having our second child (due in just a few weeks!) even after insurance!

I think most members of this forum will agree with the above, INDY. Many on the left felt Obamacare was weak in it's final form.

We just happen to feel that going back to the previous status quo is no better. It's one step out of three in the right direction.
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Old 10-22-2012, 02:27 PM   #404
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BCBS sure does seem to ration the care I get, and they're also my death panel.

But, hey, better than Barry O, amirite?
I would love to hear INDY explain why insurance company bureaucrats rationing care and private death panels is better than the government version. How is the insurance company's profit motive better for the patient than the government "rationed-care"?
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Old 10-22-2012, 04:25 PM   #405
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The whole Obama care non approval thing is kind of bullshit.

If 40+ per cent support it. It does not mean the other 60 per cent are with the tea party patriots. Perhaps 30 % want no government involvement ay all.

And about 20-25 per cent want single payer type, they want for profit insurance companies out of the health care business, That is why they oppose Obama care. I am not crazy about this system, where profiteers have too much control. Where the same procedure can be billed and paid anywhere from $500 to $5000.
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