Mandatory Health Insurance part 3 - Page 24 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-07-2012, 02:04 AM   #346
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Winterfell
Posts: 3,825
Local Time: 10:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
1) The employed, "young and healthy" need the option of catastrophic, high deductible insurance. If they don't buy that then they are gambling in a manner no different than not buying insurance on their house or saving for retirement. If one chooses to act irresponsibly with their money I lose a certain deal of economic compassion for them.

2) This law now forces the employed, "young and healthy" to buy comprehensive insurance (which actuarially and in reality most won't need) or pay the tax. Obamacare enforces community rating on the "young and healthy" which means their premium is the same as a 55 yo with diabetes, hypertension and a history of heart attacks. In the name of fairness of course.
I wonder at what point the "young and healthy" will realize they are the revenue patsies in this scheme?
Exactly! Force the kids to buy insurance, but not me! I'm a responsible adult and am very careful in my daily affairs. I should be able to be able to buy insurance whenever I need it. This mandate is only for the stupid kids and the unhealthy who don't deserve to be insured! The Republicans run Congress. With great power comes great responsibility! Now they have to step up and undo this. They have the responsibility of making sure these fools and illegals don't run up my premiums!
__________________

__________________
Steved1998 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2012, 02:30 AM   #347
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Winterfell
Posts: 3,825
Local Time: 10:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny Boy View Post
Of course they are the revenue source. No health insurance plan works if only old sick people are paying premiums. And someday, those young healthy people will be old and sick.

I suppose you would like to get rid of social security as well.
Yes. Privatize it. It's a ponzi scheme as it is. Let me invest it in the free market because that will return my money 20 fold!
__________________

__________________
Steved1998 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2012, 05:13 AM   #348
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
mobvok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: boom clap
Posts: 4,433
Local Time: 06:27 AM
I typed something, but then deleted it because your use of exclamation points is setting off Poe's Law alarm bells.
__________________
mobvok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2012, 12:02 PM   #349
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Winterfell
Posts: 3,825
Local Time: 10:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mobvok View Post
I typed something, but then deleted it because your use of exclamation points is setting off Poe's Law alarm bells.
I don't know what that is, but it sounds Marxist
__________________
Steved1998 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2012, 09:36 PM   #350
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The American Resistance
Posts: 4,754
Local Time: 08:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by anitram View Post
- Vaginal delivery without complications $9,000-$17,000
- C-section delivery without complications $14,000-$25,000
- Bill received by healthy baby upon discharge $1,500-$4,000

On top of that let's add:

- An average of $130/visit during the pregnancy, and the average number of visits during a healthy pregnancy is 14, totaling almost $2,000
You realize there was a time not too long ago when families of very modest means had 7, 8 or more children and somehow paid their bills without government assistance. So how did it get so expensive? I'll give you 3 big reasons: lawsuits, 3rd party payers and technology.

Has Obamacare addressed any of these drivers of increased costs? It purposely avoids tort reform. “Tort reform is not in the bill because the people who wrote it did not want to take on the trial lawyers. And, that is the plain and simple truth.” Howard Dean 2009. ObGyn is one of the highest by the way leading to the closing of maternity wards in many hospitals and a shortage of such doctors.

The more engaged a consumer is in the market the more incentive there is for the market to drive down the price -- is the heath care consumer more or less engaged in the market by Obamacare.

8% of babies born in this country are to parents here illegally. Somebody (that would be us) is paying for that. I can't even ask with a straight face if Obamacare addresses that issue so I won't.

Quote:
And this does NOT include costs spent on high-risk pregnancies (ie. women who develop gestational diabetes, fibroids, early ruptures, etc) nor does it include costs incurred by babies who need to spend time in the NICU - this is where they really ding you and you can easily be looking at $100K/case.
Caring for infants such as these, the elderly and other terrible diseases add to the total cost of health care and the fact that we do more of it than other countries is a reason we spend so much more on health care per capita. And that's I good thing I'd argue. We'll see if the Obamacare rationing board shares that view soon enough I guess.
__________________
INDY500 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 02:26 AM   #351
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Winterfell
Posts: 3,825
Local Time: 10:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500

You realize there was a time not too long ago when families of very modest means had 7, 8 or more children and somehow paid their bills without government assistance. So how did it get so expensive? I'll give you 3 big reasons: lawsuits, 3rd party payers and technology.

Has Obamacare addressed any of these drivers of increased costs? It purposely avoids tort reform. “Tort reform is not in the bill because the people who wrote it did not want to take on the trial lawyers. And, that is the plain and simple truth.” Howard Dean 2009. ObGyn is one of the highest by the way leading to the closing of maternity wards in many hospitals and a shortage of such doctors.

The more engaged a consumer is in the market the more incentive there is for the market to drive down the price -- is the heath care consumer more or less engaged in the market by Obamacare.

8% of babies born in this country are to parents here illegally. Somebody (that would be us) is paying for that. I can't even ask with a straight face if Obamacare addresses that issue so I won't.

Caring for infants such as these, the elderly and other terrible diseases add to the total cost of health care and the fact that we do more of it than other countries is a reason we spend so much more on health care per capita. And that's I good thing I'd argue. We'll see if the Obamacare rationing board shares that view soon enough I guess.
Well said!

The free market is completely fair. No one was ever dropped for preexisting conditions and it is absurd and unAmerican to suggest otherwise. I agree! You want to drive down costs, get rid of lawsuits(the work of the devil) and limit this scientific technology. MRI machines are basically sorcery, and people who are weak enough to get sick should use the power of prayer to get better. Thats how they did it in the olden days. If they don't, well thats so called liberal darwinism for you. As for the large families it was a sign of a healthy Christen sex life!

These illegal children should have no right to healthcare. As Newt said, "put them to work!" Newt 2011 When my forefathers who came here long ago, did they have healthcare? No! They worked for their money and didn't demand government handouts. They didn't get sick either! They didn't need healthcare and neither do these illegal kids. Jesus certainly didn't support caring for the sick and the needy. He said " teach a man to fish and he'll eat for a lifetime". These kids need to learn to fish for themselves and not rely on NObamacare. Why does this guy want to keep driving up costs? He's ruining the very fabric of America and is just going to turn us into another European socialist state!!!!

The elderly worked all their lives and now Obama wants to put them before death panels? To hell with that I say!! NObamacare is unconstitutional and had he not held Roberts' family hostage the court would have struck it down. I weep as my country keeps going down the toilet. Who will save us? Future President Rmoney, that's who! He would never let something like a mandate slide if he was in charge! We need to throw the usurper and chief out the door and send him packing back to Ken... I mean Hawaii this November.
__________________
Steved1998 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 02:37 AM   #352
you are what you is
 
Salome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 22,016
Local Time: 03:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
8% of babies born in this country are to parents here illegally. Somebody (that would be us) is paying for that. I can't even ask with a straight face if Obamacare addresses that issue so I won't.
I can't even believe you suggest with a straight face that the PPACA is the place to address this issue
unless you find logic in the notion that the issue of illegal immigrants should be addressed in about a dozen different laws
in which case I think you just lack common sense
which would explain why you reckon the PPACA would be the place to (finally) attack the unbecoming lawsuit culture in the USA
__________________
“Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe.”
~Frank Zappa
Salome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 07:05 AM   #353
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,697
Local Time: 08:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
You realize there was a time not too long ago when families of very modest means had 7, 8 or more children and somehow paid their bills without government assistance. So how did it get so expensive? I'll give you 3 big reasons: lawsuits, 3rd party payers and technology.
All free market issues


Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
Has Obamacare addressed any of these drivers of increased costs? It purposely avoids tort reform. “Tort reform is not in the bill because the people who wrote it did not want to take on the trial lawyers. And, that is the plain and simple truth.” Howard Dean 2009. ObGyn is one of the highest by the way leading to the closing of maternity wards in many hospitals and a shortage of such doctors.
The Affordable Care Act is not the time or place for tort reform, you are smart enough to know this but you ignore every this every time someone brings it up to you. Tort reform would have to be a separate monster in order to work, ask your pal Laura Ingram.

Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
The more engaged a consumer is in the market the more incentive there is for the market to drive down the price -- is the heath care consumer more or less engaged in the market by Obamacare.
Yet the free market that you have so devoutly praised has removed the consumer out of this process. When was the last time you allowed a patient to research and shop around the implant or the prescription that they will use?

Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
8% of babies born in this country are to parents here illegally. Somebody (that would be us) is paying for that. I can't even ask with a straight face if Obamacare addresses that issue so I won't.
That number is misleading. The study that you grab that 8% from does not distinguish if the mother is illegal or not, it only reports if the baby had at least one parent that was illegal. Other statistics would show that it's usually the father.

Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
Caring for infants such as these, the elderly and other terrible diseases add to the total cost of health care and the fact that we do more of it than other countries is a reason we spend so much more on health care per capita. And that's I good thing I'd argue. We'll see if the Obamacare rationing board shares that view soon enough I guess.
We are a collective society, when will those that oppose "Obamacare" finally see that and understand the costs of not caring for(paying) for these individuals?
__________________
BVS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 09:36 AM   #354
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 16,297
Local Time: 09:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
You realize there was a time not too long ago when families of very modest means had 7, 8 or more children and somehow paid their bills without government assistance. So how did it get so expensive? I'll give you 3 big reasons: lawsuits, 3rd party payers and technology.
Really? People are not having 7 or 8 children because they are expensive, and they are expensive because of lawsuits, 3rd party payers and technology?

That's pretty hilarious.

Did the parents of those 7 or 8 children live in urban centres where houses cost $2 million? Did those 7 or 8 children have to pay 500 bucks for a year's tuition at college or $45,000? Did the father of those parents make a fair wage so that he could support his family or was he toiling at 2 minimum wage jobs, like his wife?

But I note that you didn't answer the question, so am I to assume that you'd rather not see pregnant women who can't afford to have the baby due to costs, whether that woman is an illegal immigrant or an unemployed or underemployed American if it means that you'd have socialized medicine? I'm not saying that stance is wrong, but let's at least be honest so that we know what we're talking about next time a pro-life conversation kicks up.
__________________
anitram is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 12:55 PM   #355
Acrobat
 
ladyfreckles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Seattle
Posts: 402
Local Time: 07:27 AM
Slightly unrelated question here. I have house insurance. But I always wondered what it was supposed to cover. Just emergencies or does it actually cover things that break/get damaged because of poor build quality?

Quote:
Originally Posted by anitram View Post
Really? People are not having 7 or 8 children because they are expensive, and they are expensive because of lawsuits, 3rd party payers and technology?

Did the parents of those 7 or 8 children live in urban centres where houses cost $2 million? Did those 7 or 8 children have to pay 500 bucks for a year's tuition at college or $45,000? Did the father of those parents make a fair wage so that he could support his family or was he toiling at 2 minimum wage jobs, like his wife?
This is an excellent point. The fact is that it was much cheaper to have kids a long time ago than it is now. I think free markets are better than the alternative however I don't believe in 100% free markets. Some regulation is required because we are humans and humans aren't all perfect/fair. A lot of these issues (things going way up in price) happened conveniently right after we stopped regulating banks.
__________________
ladyfreckles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 09:11 PM   #356
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The American Resistance
Posts: 4,754
Local Time: 08:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Salome View Post
I can't even believe you suggest with a straight face that the PPACA is the place to address this issue
unless you find logic in the notion that the issue of illegal immigrants should be addressed in about a dozen different laws
in which case I think you just lack common sense
which would explain why you reckon the PPACA would be the place to (finally) attack the unbecoming lawsuit culture in the USA
It is relevant in that this administration has passed a law to now force millions of American "freeloaders" to engage in health care commerce but grants blank-check amnesty to the millions of non-Americans using our health care services for free.
__________________
INDY500 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 09:26 PM   #357
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The American Resistance
Posts: 4,754
Local Time: 08:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by anitram View Post
Really? People are not having 7 or 8 children because they are expensive, and they are expensive because of lawsuits, 3rd party payers and technology?

That's pretty hilarious.

Did the parents of those 7 or 8 children live in urban centres where houses cost $2 million? Did those 7 or 8 children have to pay 500 bucks for a year's tuition at college or $45,000? Did the father of those parents make a fair wage so that he could support his family or was he toiling at 2 minimum wage jobs, like his wife?
Nice debate tactic, make me defend an argument I never made while avoiding any empirical defense of your position.
Quote:
But I note that you didn't answer the question, so am I to assume that you'd rather not see pregnant women who can't afford to have the baby due to costs, whether that woman is an illegal immigrant or an unemployed or underemployed American if it means that you'd have socialized medicine? I'm not saying that stance is wrong, but let's at least be honest so that we know what we're talking about next time a pro-life conversation kicks up.
I don't even understand the premise of your question. I want to actually reform health care to make it affordable enough for families to pay for the birth of a child and their subsequent health care needs through adolescence. I also want to return to an expectation that parents assume financial responsibility for their offspring. Old fashioned I know.

In case you haven't noticed, government can't afford to raise our children starting with pregnancy and continuing through college.
__________________
INDY500 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 11:18 PM   #358
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,697
Local Time: 08:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500
Nice debate tactic, make me defend an argument I never made while avoiding any empirical defense of your position.
Her point is pretty obvious and doesn't avoid anything. I'm sorry you missed it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500
I don't even understand the premise of your question. I want to actually reform health care to make it affordable enough for families to pay for the birth of a child and their subsequent health care needs through adolescence. I also want to return to an expectation that parents assume financial responsibility for their offspring. Old fashioned I know.

In case you haven't noticed, government can't afford to raise our children starting with pregnancy and continuing through college.
Yet none of the solutions you have offered so far do any of this.
__________________
BVS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 11:37 PM   #359
Blue Crack Addict
 
Moonlit_Angel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In a dimension known as the Twilight Zone...do de doo doo, do de doo doo...
Posts: 19,271
Local Time: 08:27 AM
Is there a chance we can retire the word "freeloaders" from all economic discussion for a while?

Also:

Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
I also want to return to an expectation that parents assume financial responsibility for their offspring. Old fashioned I know.

In case you haven't noticed, government can't afford to raise our children starting with pregnancy and continuing through college.
Neither can many parents. I love the idea of parents being able to provide everything for their children, that's wonderful. But even with the best of intentions, many still have a hard time doing that.
__________________
Moonlit_Angel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2012, 04:43 PM   #360
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Winterfell
Posts: 3,825
Local Time: 10:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonlit_Angel View Post
Is there a chance we can retire the word "freeloaders" from all economic discussion for a while?

Also:



Neither can many parents. I love the idea of parents being able to provide everything for their children, that's wonderful. But even with the best of intentions, many still have a hard time doing that.
Freeloaders describes these people perfectly. Why retire it? While we're at it, we should also reexamine all the freeloaders who are suckling at the government teat once they hit 65. I have to pay for their health insurance too? I think not. A day of reckoning is coming.


Kids get too much now a days because parents provide too much. We need to lower the age that you can start working down to at least 10, although I'd be happy at 13. When I was 11 I got a job off the books sweeping floors in a factory. It will teach them responsibility.
__________________

__________________
Steved1998 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:27 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com