INDY500
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
Is this your one note mambo? Faux conservatism cum cynicism.
Mandatory Health Insurance part 3
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Is this your one note mambo? Faux conservatism cum cynicism.
Steved1998
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Faux conservative? Hold on there Mr. FrenchieMc French! This is how I was raised! This is what I believe in my heart. These values are the driving force of my existence. Without the cum, of course.
It's time to take back this country from NObama!
BoMac
Self-righteous bullshitter
Question: let's say some of those injured victims in the Aurora theatre shooting are also unlucky enough not to have medical insurance. What happens to them now? They were admitted to hospital, so are they on the hook to make payments once they are released?
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
If they'd had concealed weapons on them we couldda taken down this sumabitch before he got as far as he did.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
BoMac said:
If they had prayed before this godless movie maybe this wouldn't have happened.
MrsSpringsteen
Blue Crack Addict
Probably no help for them. But at least the killer got a govt grant to study neuroscience.
MrsSpringsteen
Blue Crack Addict
By COLLEEN SLEVIN and KRISTEN WYATT Associated Press
DENVER July 26, 2012
Some of the victims fighting for their lives after being wounded in the movie-theater shooting rampage may face another challenge when they get out of the hospital: enormous medical bills without the benefit of health insurance.
Members of the public, along with Warner Bros., the studio that released the Batman movie "The Dark Knight Rises," have contributed nearly $2 million to help victims, though it's not clear how much of that will cover medical expenses. One family is raising money on its own online.
And three of the five hospitals treating victims said Wednesday they will limit or completely wipe out medical bills.
Some of the victims, however, still face a long recovery ahead and the associated medical costs — without health insurance. There's no exact count of how many of them don't have insurance but statistics suggest many of them might not be covered.
Nearly one in three Coloradans, or about 1.5 million, either have no health insurance or have coverage that is inadequate, according to a 2011 report by The Colorado Trust, a health care advocacy group.
The highest uninsured rate was among adults between 18 and 34 and many of those injured in the shootings are in that age group.
State officials said they are not sure whether any of the victims qualify for emergency Medicaid assistance available to needy patients. Victims could also get financial assistance from a state program that helps people hurt during crimes, including lost wages and counseling.
Among the uninsured victims of the movie-theater attack is a 23-year-old aspiring comic, Caleb Medley, who is in critical condition with a head wound and whose wife, Katie, gave birth to their first child, Hugo, on Tuesday.
His family and friends said they have set a goal of raising $500,000 to cover his hospital bills and other expenses and were over halfway there on Wednesday.
"All the money that is donated is going straight to Caleb, Katie and Hugo to help them with medical bills, getting back on their feet, help with the baby items," friend Michael West said. "Anything and everything that they need."
Children's Hospital Colorado announced it would use donations and its charity care fund to cover the medical expenses of the uninsured. For those who do have insurance, the hospital says it will waive all co-pays.
"We are committed to supporting these families as they heal," according to a statement from the hospital, which treated six shooting victims.
HealthOne, which owns the Medical Center of Aurora and Swedish Medical Center, also says it will limit or eliminate charges based on the individual circumstances of the patients. Those hospitals have treated 22 shooting victims. However, the company cautioned its policy may not apply to all doctors working in its hospitals.
The other two hospitals, Denver Health Medical Center and University of Colorado Hospital, where Medley is, wouldn't directly say whether they would assist shooting victims. However, they are the state's top two safety net hospitals and provided combined $750 million in free care in 2011.
Hospitals are required by federal law to stabilize patients during emergencies without regard to their ability to pay.
"The issue most probably facing the hospitals and patients in a situation like Aurora is what comes after 'stabilization,'" said Dr. Howard Brody, director of the Institute for the Medical Humanities at the University of Texas Medical Branch in Galveston and a frequent critic of excessive medical costs.
"Many of these people I assume will need prolonged and expensive rehabilitation after their immediate injuries are dealt with, and that seems precisely what hospitals today are less and less willing to cover out of their own funds, and no law requires that they do so, as far as I am aware," he said.
Medley is in a medically induced coma, but West said he has been showing signs of improvement, relying less on a ventilator to breathe. Medley's wife, 21-year-old Katie Medley, gave birth on Tuesday, one floor above his room at University of Colorado Hospital.
Standup comedian Gabriel Iglesias, who has appeared on Comedy Central, planned to headline a Denver fundraiser for Medley next week.
The fundraising might actually make Medley ineligible for some income-related assistance. His family and all other victims are already meeting with victim advocates, the case workers who deal with people hurt during crimes. The advocates determine what services they need and what assistance they qualify for.
"We have individuals who will need a lifetime of care, or a lifetime of accommodation, and our job is to make sure those needs are met," said Karla Maraccini, deputy director for community partnerships in the office of Gov. John Hickenlooper.
DENVER July 26, 2012
Some of the victims fighting for their lives after being wounded in the movie-theater shooting rampage may face another challenge when they get out of the hospital: enormous medical bills without the benefit of health insurance.
Members of the public, along with Warner Bros., the studio that released the Batman movie "The Dark Knight Rises," have contributed nearly $2 million to help victims, though it's not clear how much of that will cover medical expenses. One family is raising money on its own online.
And three of the five hospitals treating victims said Wednesday they will limit or completely wipe out medical bills.
Some of the victims, however, still face a long recovery ahead and the associated medical costs — without health insurance. There's no exact count of how many of them don't have insurance but statistics suggest many of them might not be covered.
Nearly one in three Coloradans, or about 1.5 million, either have no health insurance or have coverage that is inadequate, according to a 2011 report by The Colorado Trust, a health care advocacy group.
The highest uninsured rate was among adults between 18 and 34 and many of those injured in the shootings are in that age group.
State officials said they are not sure whether any of the victims qualify for emergency Medicaid assistance available to needy patients. Victims could also get financial assistance from a state program that helps people hurt during crimes, including lost wages and counseling.
Among the uninsured victims of the movie-theater attack is a 23-year-old aspiring comic, Caleb Medley, who is in critical condition with a head wound and whose wife, Katie, gave birth to their first child, Hugo, on Tuesday.
His family and friends said they have set a goal of raising $500,000 to cover his hospital bills and other expenses and were over halfway there on Wednesday.
"All the money that is donated is going straight to Caleb, Katie and Hugo to help them with medical bills, getting back on their feet, help with the baby items," friend Michael West said. "Anything and everything that they need."
Children's Hospital Colorado announced it would use donations and its charity care fund to cover the medical expenses of the uninsured. For those who do have insurance, the hospital says it will waive all co-pays.
"We are committed to supporting these families as they heal," according to a statement from the hospital, which treated six shooting victims.
HealthOne, which owns the Medical Center of Aurora and Swedish Medical Center, also says it will limit or eliminate charges based on the individual circumstances of the patients. Those hospitals have treated 22 shooting victims. However, the company cautioned its policy may not apply to all doctors working in its hospitals.
The other two hospitals, Denver Health Medical Center and University of Colorado Hospital, where Medley is, wouldn't directly say whether they would assist shooting victims. However, they are the state's top two safety net hospitals and provided combined $750 million in free care in 2011.
Hospitals are required by federal law to stabilize patients during emergencies without regard to their ability to pay.
"The issue most probably facing the hospitals and patients in a situation like Aurora is what comes after 'stabilization,'" said Dr. Howard Brody, director of the Institute for the Medical Humanities at the University of Texas Medical Branch in Galveston and a frequent critic of excessive medical costs.
"Many of these people I assume will need prolonged and expensive rehabilitation after their immediate injuries are dealt with, and that seems precisely what hospitals today are less and less willing to cover out of their own funds, and no law requires that they do so, as far as I am aware," he said.
Medley is in a medically induced coma, but West said he has been showing signs of improvement, relying less on a ventilator to breathe. Medley's wife, 21-year-old Katie Medley, gave birth on Tuesday, one floor above his room at University of Colorado Hospital.
Standup comedian Gabriel Iglesias, who has appeared on Comedy Central, planned to headline a Denver fundraiser for Medley next week.
The fundraising might actually make Medley ineligible for some income-related assistance. His family and all other victims are already meeting with victim advocates, the case workers who deal with people hurt during crimes. The advocates determine what services they need and what assistance they qualify for.
"We have individuals who will need a lifetime of care, or a lifetime of accommodation, and our job is to make sure those needs are met," said Karla Maraccini, deputy director for community partnerships in the office of Gov. John Hickenlooper.
BoMac
Self-righteous bullshitter
As if going through what they just did wasn't enough, families now have to raise hundreds of thousands of dollars to cover medical expenses.
Horrible. Just horrible.
Our system is far from perfect, but I'm glad I live in Canada and don't have to worry about this.
Horrible. Just horrible.
Our system is far from perfect, but I'm glad I live in Canada and don't have to worry about this.
MrsSpringsteen
Blue Crack Addict
It's their fault. You should never go to a movie without health insurance.
Oh well, at least the state of Colorado and the US govt will spend lots of money on feeding, housing, caring for, and trying the killer. Maybe we can buy him hair dye too, arrange for a private screening of TDKR-since he asked how it ends.
I wonder if any gun companies will donate to the victims
Oh well, at least the state of Colorado and the US govt will spend lots of money on feeding, housing, caring for, and trying the killer. Maybe we can buy him hair dye too, arrange for a private screening of TDKR-since he asked how it ends.
I wonder if any gun companies will donate to the victims
tim722
The Fly
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2006
- Messages
- 160
BoMac said:
Ummm. Yes usually when you use a service you are responsible to pay for it. Do you really think differently?
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
You really did miss his point didn't you?
BoMac
Self-righteous bullshitter
My comment was more tongue-in-cheek, but I was also wondering if there is some sort of "catastrophic" clause, for lack of a better term, that allows those who are uninsured and injured in tragic circumstances such as this to have their medical bills waived.
Also, I don't see health care as a service, but as a right that's good for society. Moreover, I take exception with your use of the phrase "use a service", as if these victims had a choice in the matter.
Thankfully, Denver-area hospitals are doing the right thing so the victims and their families can focus on healing and not get distracted by fundraising.
More hospitals adjust bills for shooting victims unable to pay - The Denver Post
Obviously the victims had a choice to use the service. They could have walked into the theater wearing bulletproof vests and carrying assault rifles themselves with which to fight off Holmes. If everyone did that, society would be grand. But no. They took the risk of not fortifying themselves when going in public. They should have to pay the damages.
^
I think the problem with saying that the victims didn't choose their fate probably won't be convincing to a person who views healthcare as a service because people also don't choose to get cancer or a genetic default, etc.
And while it is commendable of the hospitals to be helping with reducing the costs, keep in mind that many of these individuals will require long-term if not life-long healthcare services as they enter the rehab process. I doubt that in 5 years you'll see the same charitable approach from the hospitals, doctors, physiotherapists, etc.
I think the problem with saying that the victims didn't choose their fate probably won't be convincing to a person who views healthcare as a service because people also don't choose to get cancer or a genetic default, etc.
And while it is commendable of the hospitals to be helping with reducing the costs, keep in mind that many of these individuals will require long-term if not life-long healthcare services as they enter the rehab process. I doubt that in 5 years you'll see the same charitable approach from the hospitals, doctors, physiotherapists, etc.
INDY500
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
I guess we can celebrate socialized medicine now too the next time the U.S. hosts the Olympics.
Is that the Minister of Rationing in black?
Steved1998
Rock n' Roll Doggie
The free market will help them out. NObamacare won't.
MrsSpringsteen
Blue Crack Addict
Wow, can't believe this is real but it is. It isn't April Fools Day. Maybe just Fools Day
nbcnews.com
Republican likens contraceptive mandate to Pearl Harbor, 9/11
A House Republican lawmaker likened the implementation of a new mandate that insurers offer coverage for contraceptive services to Pearl Harbor and the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks against the United States.
Pennsylvania Rep. Mike Kelly (R), an ardent opponent of abortion rights, said that today's date would live in infamy alongside those two other historic occasions. Wednesday marked the day on which a controversial new requirement by the Department of Health and Human Services, which requires health insurance companies to cover contraceptive services for women, goes into effect.
"I know in your mind you can think of times when America was attacked. One is December 7th, that's Pearl Harbor day. The other is September 11th, and that's the day of the terrorist attack," Kelly said at a press conference on Capitol Hill. "I want you to remember August the 1st, 2012, the attack on our religious freedom. That is a day that will live in infamy, along with those other dates.
Republicans cried foul when the Obama administration first announced the new rule, reasoning that it would force employers with a religious affiliation to act in a way that contradicts their beliefs. The outcry included criticism from the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, and President Obama subsequently announced a compromise in which employers wouldn't be forced to offer insurance plans that cover contraception, but insurance companies would be required to offer coverage to women who wish to purchase it.
Republicans rejected the compromise, and subsequently attempted several times to advance legislation to reverse the mandate. The imbroglio contributed to Democratic charges of a GOP-led "war on women."
"This is a right that every American should be outraged, outraged about what this administration and Secretary Sibelius has set forth here on August the 1st," New York Rep. Ann Marie Buerkle (R) said at the same press conference as Kelly. "And as Mike said, August the 1st is a day that we as American will look at as the largest assault on our First Amendment rights."
*UPDATE* Hawaii Sen. Daniel Inouye, a veteran of World War II, condemned Kelly's comments in a statement.
nbcnews.com
Republican likens contraceptive mandate to Pearl Harbor, 9/11
A House Republican lawmaker likened the implementation of a new mandate that insurers offer coverage for contraceptive services to Pearl Harbor and the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks against the United States.
Pennsylvania Rep. Mike Kelly (R), an ardent opponent of abortion rights, said that today's date would live in infamy alongside those two other historic occasions. Wednesday marked the day on which a controversial new requirement by the Department of Health and Human Services, which requires health insurance companies to cover contraceptive services for women, goes into effect.
"I know in your mind you can think of times when America was attacked. One is December 7th, that's Pearl Harbor day. The other is September 11th, and that's the day of the terrorist attack," Kelly said at a press conference on Capitol Hill. "I want you to remember August the 1st, 2012, the attack on our religious freedom. That is a day that will live in infamy, along with those other dates.
Republicans cried foul when the Obama administration first announced the new rule, reasoning that it would force employers with a religious affiliation to act in a way that contradicts their beliefs. The outcry included criticism from the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, and President Obama subsequently announced a compromise in which employers wouldn't be forced to offer insurance plans that cover contraception, but insurance companies would be required to offer coverage to women who wish to purchase it.
Republicans rejected the compromise, and subsequently attempted several times to advance legislation to reverse the mandate. The imbroglio contributed to Democratic charges of a GOP-led "war on women."
"This is a right that every American should be outraged, outraged about what this administration and Secretary Sibelius has set forth here on August the 1st," New York Rep. Ann Marie Buerkle (R) said at the same press conference as Kelly. "And as Mike said, August the 1st is a day that we as American will look at as the largest assault on our First Amendment rights."
*UPDATE* Hawaii Sen. Daniel Inouye, a veteran of World War II, condemned Kelly's comments in a statement.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
No this can't be true, the war on women is something the left just made up.
Oh please!
Comparing contraceptive coverage to actual terrorism and the killing of innocents is absolutely exploitive. Unless, of course, you actually see the similarities, but that would also be asinine.
Seriously, the use of contraception does nothing heinous. I have yet to hear a reasonable argument against the contraceptives and why it shouldn't be covered.
MrsSpringsteen
Blue Crack Addict
Misguided? More like bat shit crazy. But I guess he can't say that. Not to mention an insult to the victims of both tragedies.
Not to make light of it at all but I can't get the image out of my head of an attack of the giant contraceptives.
Sen. Daniel Inouye of Hawaii said Rep. Mike Kelly’s comments were “misguided.”
"I witnessed the attack on Pearl Harbor and had the privilege of serving in the United States Army during World War II," Inouye, 87, who will celebrate 50 years as a senator in January, said in a statement.
"It is complete nonsense to suggest that a matter discussed, debated, and approved by the Congress and the President is akin to a surprise attack that killed nearly 2,500 people and launched our nation into the second World War.”
Not to make light of it at all but I can't get the image out of my head of an attack of the giant contraceptives.
Sen. Daniel Inouye of Hawaii said Rep. Mike Kelly’s comments were “misguided.”
"I witnessed the attack on Pearl Harbor and had the privilege of serving in the United States Army during World War II," Inouye, 87, who will celebrate 50 years as a senator in January, said in a statement.
"It is complete nonsense to suggest that a matter discussed, debated, and approved by the Congress and the President is akin to a surprise attack that killed nearly 2,500 people and launched our nation into the second World War.”
I hope the Republican members of Congress keep ranting against birth control all the way until November.
I'm actually very surprised that their leadership hasn't done a better job at muzzling some of these guys. It's such a loser of an issue for them, every poll is blatantly obviously against them and yet they keep staying the course. Wonderful news for anyone who doesn't want Romney elected.
Particularly affected will be older women who lived through the 60s as teenagers and young women - women of my Mom's generation for whom these comments bring up an especially strong reaction.
I'm actually very surprised that their leadership hasn't done a better job at muzzling some of these guys. It's such a loser of an issue for them, every poll is blatantly obviously against them and yet they keep staying the course. Wonderful news for anyone who doesn't want Romney elected.
Particularly affected will be older women who lived through the 60s as teenagers and young women - women of my Mom's generation for whom these comments bring up an especially strong reaction.
the thing i got from that quote was the weird way of saying the dates. december 7th, september 11th, august...the first? i'm picturing some king, not a date. and whenever politicians like this open their mouths about this topic, i can't help but think they didn't pay any attention during sex ed class.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
I think it's very telling of the Republican leadership and why the only women leaders the party can seem to attract are the Sarah Palin's or Culter's of the world.
corianderstem
Blue Crack Distributor
Christ, what an asshole.
Moonlit_Angel
Blue Crack Addict
Really?
"My name is Mike Kelly, and I'm a complete and total dumbass."
It's cute how they care about rights when it affects them. They sure don't seem to give a crap about trampling on other people's rights.
And once again, of course, it's men coming out and making comments on this issue. 'Cause they're clearly the ones who will be the most affected. I feel for them, really, I do.
i still don't see how this is an "assault on (their) first amendment rights" - more instances of the extreme right not knowing what's in the constitution.
the first amendment covers...
- free exercise clause
- establishment clause
- freedom of speech
- freedom of the press
- freedom of assembly
- right to petition
hmm, i see nothing in there about the "right to never wrap it before you tap it" (i can't think of a witty phrase about birth control pills)
the first amendment covers...
- free exercise clause
- establishment clause
- freedom of speech
- freedom of the press
- freedom of assembly
- right to petition
hmm, i see nothing in there about the "right to never wrap it before you tap it" (i can't think of a witty phrase about birth control pills)
I think it's a somewhat reasonable constitutional argument that it interferes on the constitutional right to freedom of religion of an employer to not pay for their employees' birth control on religious ground.
That being said, freedom of religion (as well as speech and the press) aren't totally rigid, and they've never been treated as such. Legal action can be taken against some speech, and the good ol' "my religion says that I should smoke marijuana, so drug laws don't apply to me" argument doesn't tend to hold water in court. This issue to me is on really shaky constitutional ground, on both sides. And it is times like these when Constitution-worship bugs me.
The founders, of course, would probably not have envisioned a world where the government requires that employers provide a certain degree of health care to employees. But they also would not have envisioned a world with a health care system even remotely similar to the one we have right now. The libertarian argument is that it's absurd for the federal government to be involved in health care in any way, shape, or form. And there are definitely strong constitutional arguments in favor of that. It's silly to try to extract "framers' intent" as if the framers had one unified universal message to transmit to posterity, because they didn't, and they often disagreed, which adds to the murkiness. Again, to me, the Constitution is a very imperfect document no matter how you slice it.
I personally lean towards single-payer to get out of this issue and around the bureaucratic complexities of the Affordable Care Act in general, though I obviously don't have a problem with ACA's overall goal. One could argue that it is just as much an infringement on freedom of religion of whatever religious people actually have a problem with birth control for the government to be using taxpayer money to pay for birth control, but that's a wildly slippery slope. Amongst people who protested against the Iraq War in 2003, I'm sure that there were at least a few pacifists on religious grounds who objected to their taxpayer money being used for that war, and them suing the government would not have stopped the war.
INDY500
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
And where does it speak to the "right" to free contraception? Free being a misnomer since others would be forced to pay for it, possibly against the teachings of their faith.
did i say it was in the constitution? before getting all snarky, you could at least read my post before picking a two week old post to reply to.
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