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Old 03-29-2012, 07:28 AM   #136
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Health Saving Accounts. They were in the Medicare part D bill.

Protection from catastrophic costs, lower premiums, lower costs for my employer, same preventative care benefits, my personal contributions are "pre-tax" and if I don't use the money for health care needs it builds up and can eventually be passed on in inheritance like any other savings account.

I'm a more cost-conscious consumer than someone paying a $10 copay for everything that's for sure.
if the insurance companies are behind this, its all about money. the government is really about taking care of us. we have nothing to lose by letting them take over the whole system.
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Old 03-29-2012, 08:22 AM   #137
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Health Saving Accounts. They were in the Medicare part D bill.
How does that do anything to combat rising costs?

Do you mandate an amount of $ that people have to put in an HSA? What about people who don't bother saving any (given how leveraged your average US citizen is, they're not saving for anything much less healthcare)? What happens when people run out? Just back to square one (declare bankruptcy, get into further unmanageable debt)?
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Old 03-29-2012, 08:49 AM   #138
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How does that do anything to combat rising costs?

Do you mandate an amount of $ that people have to put in an HSA? What about people who don't bother saving any (given how leveraged your average US citizen is, they're not saving for anything much less healthcare)? What happens when people run out? Just back to square one (declare bankruptcy, get into further unmanageable debt)?
exactly, you can't count on us to save any money for anything. i spend it as i make it knowing the govt will bail me out if i get into any real emergency, and this health care plan will take care of that.
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Old 03-29-2012, 09:03 AM   #139
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HSAs are a worse idea than the status quo. At least the middle class who can afford insurance get the benefit of spreading risk around and not being out hundreds of thousands of dollars that they'd never be able to afford if they were just required to save up with an HSA.
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Old 03-29-2012, 09:08 AM   #140
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HSAs are a worse idea than the status quo. At least the middle class who can afford insurance get the benefit of spreading risk around and not being out hundreds of thousands of dollars that they'd never be able to afford if they were just required to save up with an HSA.
why should the middle class be the only ones who benefit? Everyone deserves access to all health care regardless. the govt will make sure that all people in the country (whether a citizen or not) will get this access. No one will have to be worry about getting sick because they well be taken care of. i don't understand why people just dont' get it. lives are more important than budgets and bottom lines. our govt can do this if we just let them.
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Old 03-29-2012, 09:09 AM   #141
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HSAs are a worse idea than the status quo. At least the middle class who can afford insurance get the benefit of spreading risk around and not being out hundreds of thousands of dollars that they'd never be able to afford if they were just required to save up with an HSA.
HSAs are great for people that can afford it, for the healthy, and they are great for providers. This is the perspective that INDY is coming from. He's someone who can afford it and he's a health provider(that I assume works more with cash than insurance companies), so that's his limited scope.

No way in hell do HSAs work for anyone else.
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Old 03-29-2012, 09:14 AM   #142
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lives are more important than budgets and bottom lines.
Of course they are, but we live in a society that money IS god. Even the god fearing Tea Partiers worship the free market and capitalism over their version of Jesus.

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our govt can do this if we just let them.
Now I agree with a lot of your sentiment, but you do come off sounding slightly naive and a little too trusting of the government. To me at the end of the day, the people and the health providers would be the ideal scenario to have in charge of healthcare, but NO ONE has come up with a model that allows that. So I trust the government over a profit driven insurance industry. But by no means do I ever place ALL my trust in a government.
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Old 03-29-2012, 09:16 AM   #143
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HSAs are great for people that can afford it, for the healthy, and they are great for providers. This is the perspective that INDY is coming from. He's someone who can afford it and he's a health provider(that I assume works more with cash than insurance companies), so that's his limited scope.

No way in hell do HSAs work for anyone else.
I wouldn't even say that they're great for the wealthy. I think even rich people would generally prefer to have several hundred dollars per month taken out of their paycheck then to build up and potentially surrender hundreds of thousands of dollars in case they get cancer.
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Old 03-29-2012, 09:21 AM   #144
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I wouldn't even say that they're great for the wealthy. I think even rich people would generally prefer to have several hundred dollars per month taken out of their paycheck then to build up and potentially surrender hundreds of thousands of dollars in case they get cancer.
Yeah, well that's why I say the well to do and the healthy. And you're right they don't really work for major ongoing illnesses unless you saved all your life and are only sick at the end. But you don't "lose" the money like you would in insurance. A healthy 27 year old who is making six figures can save money pretty easy, so at the end of the fiscal year he still has access to his/her HSA, but they seemingly "wasted" their insurance money since they didn't really use it.
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Old 03-29-2012, 09:29 AM   #145
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Of course they are, but we live in a society that money IS god. Even the god fearing Tea Partiers worship the free market and capitalism over their version of Jesus.



Now I agree with a lot of your sentiment, but you do come off sounding slightly naive and a little too trusting of the government. To me at the end of the day, the people and the health providers would be the ideal scenario to have in charge of healthcare, but NO ONE has come up with a model that allows that. So I trust the government over a profit driven insurance industry. But by no means do I ever place ALL my trust in a government.
you and i agree totally here, but the govt has a great track record of taking care of people in social programs. my step dad worked at the VA for 35 years in washington and raves about what a smooth effiecent machine it is so why not. the government has nothing to gain just by helping everyone out. i personally feel that rich persons are the evil behind all of our troubles so we should just take everything they have and give it to the downtrodden and unemployed. they don't deserve to live a better life than we do just because they have greed on there side. i don't like being called naive seeing as that nothing people and the private industries they work in really works. the govt. will do this and we will all be happy. ideally govt control over prices, salaries, and markets will lead to fairness and happiness. kinda like i really believe so much of the worlds problems would be solved by simple uniformity (kind like school uniforms solves so many social issues) if everyone has exactly the same of everything then greed takes a huge hit! all of my trust will always be with the govt, as people are flawed, not govt.
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Old 03-29-2012, 09:41 AM   #146
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you and i agree totally here, but the govt has a great track record of taking care of people in social programs. my step dad worked at the VA for 35 years in washington and raves about what a smooth effiecent machine it is so why not. the government has nothing to gain just by helping everyone out. i personally feel that rich persons are the evil behind all of our troubles so we should just take everything they have and give it to the downtrodden and unemployed. they don't deserve to live a better life than we do just because they have greed on there side. i don't like being called naive seeing as that nothing people and the private industries they work in really works. the govt. will do this and we will all be happy. ideally govt control over prices, salaries, and markets will lead to fairness and happiness. kinda like i really believe so much of the worlds problems would be solved by simple uniformity (kind like school uniforms solves so many social issues) if everyone has exactly the same of everything then greed takes a huge hit! all of my trust will always be with the govt, as people are flawed, not govt.
I mean no offense by calling you naive, my apologies. It's just that I think history has proven that government has often been flawed.
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Old 03-29-2012, 09:43 AM   #147
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I mean no offense by calling you naive, my apologies. It's just that I think history has proven that government has often been flawed.
for social programs, very very rare. You can give me one failure and I'll give you 20 great programs. Europe is a great model for us and we refuse to look at there programs of efficiency and fairness. Hell, I hear Canada has it right. I bet Mexico is even better too but I haven't really looked into it.

plus, i have never heard of anyone speak bad about there own healthcare systems (in other countries.) we are the only ones who complain so we are the ones in the wrong clearly.
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Old 03-29-2012, 09:49 AM   #148
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I am Canadian and I thank God every day that I don't have to worry about all of this. I am naive, because I don't understand the opposition to Universal health care. In my case, my infant son was extremely ill. They couldn't treat him in the city where I live, so they air ambulanced him to Toronto where he got world class care. He was hospitalized for 3 weeks. When he was well enough to travel, he was flown home on a plane just for him. He had months of follow up. My cost out of pocket? Nothing. Of course we do pay taxes, but I cannot even imagine the outcome of my situation if I did not live in Canada.
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Old 03-29-2012, 09:55 AM   #149
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I am Canadian and I thank God every day that I don't have to worry about all of this. I am naive, because I don't understand the opposition to Universal health care. In my case, my infant son was extremely ill. They couldn't treat him in the city where I live, so they air ambulanced him to Toronto where he got world class care. He was hospitalized for 3 weeks. When he was well enough to travel, he was flown home on a plane just for him. He had months of follow up. My cost out of pocket? Nothing. Of course we do pay taxes, but I cannot even imagine the outcome of my situation if I did not live in Canada.
perfect example of I am sure of millions. We should have this. great health care that hardly costs anything and it is fair. I don't want to think about it more anymore either. I should probably go to Canada, as the USA is severly flawed.
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Old 03-29-2012, 10:02 AM   #150
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We pay through taxes, so it does cost us, but if something major happens, as it did to my family, we don't have to worry about losing our house. My grandfather doesn't have to worry about not having coverage because of pre-existing health conditions.

My son is nicknamed the "Million dollar baby" by our doctor. From what he told me the costs would be if we actually paid out of pocket, this is true.
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