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Old 09-12-2009, 05:16 PM   #31
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This article makes it sound like the behavior was not appropriate

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Man nabbed for kissing his daughter

September 08 2009 at 05:31PM

Sao Paulo - An Italian man arrested in Brazil on suspicion of pedophilia for kissing his eight-year-old daughter in public has been admitted to hospital suffering symptoms of stress, media reported on Tuesday.

The 48-year-old businessman was arrested a week ago while on vacation in the northern city of Fortaleza after an elderly Brazilian couple saw him kiss his daughter while they were both in a hotel pool.

The couple thought the kiss, on the girl's mouth, and other signs of affection were "inappropriate" and alerted police, according to reports on the news websites G1, O Globo and Zero Hora.

The man, who was not named, was detained under a tough new Brazilian law introduced in August designed to clamp down on the sexual abuse of minors.

His Brazilian wife said she was near the pool at the time and insists the kiss was innocent.

The Italian was admitted to hospital on Sunday suffering high blood pressure and depression.

"We saw he was very tense, stressed and hadn't eaten. So we decided to get a doctor to look after him. After taking his blood pressure, the doctor decided he should be transferred to hospital for a series of tests," the man's lawyer, Flavio Jacinto, told Zero Hora.

Four witnesses at the hotel pool were questioned by police.

Two reportedly said that they, too, felt uncomfortable with the way the man was interacting with his daughter. One witness reportedly said the kiss was suspiciously lingering.

If convicted under the new law, the Italian could face up to 15 years in prison.
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Old 09-12-2009, 05:53 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by deep View Post
This article makes it sound like the behavior was not appropriate
But was it inappropriate, or inappropriate according to a society that doesn't kiss their ckildren on the lips?
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Old 09-12-2009, 05:54 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by AngelK View Post
I'm not trying to create controversy, but i don't think it's silly at all... Do you really believe that a 3 or 4 year old child, for example, knows the difference?

I've worked with small children here in the US and whenever i tried to explain something wasn't a appropriate behavior, they would say "oh it's ok, daddy does it to me all the time" or "but mommy likes it when i do this to her"... So in their tinny little heads if it's ok to do something with mommy and daddy it's ok to do it with any other adult.

In Law School i also studied countless cases of molestation, with children as young as 2. Most of the cases it started with something innocent enough or something the mother or father didn't think was a big deal, then it escalated to full blown molestation or rape... Worse yet, a lot of the children didn't think there was something wrong at all because it was what they knew and were used to.

Parents need to create boundaries and respect going both ways... You can't have mixed messages or rules... You need to be clear and consistent on what's appropriate or not. There are some lines you just don't cross and, in my opinion, kissing children in the mouth is one of them.
I disagree. Sure, a child as young as 2 or 3 cannot truly understand the concept of strangers and inappropriate touching, but it's our responsibility to constantly teach them and carefully monitor them. (Btw, as a 5 y/o victim of sexual molestation, I can attest that some children do understand that something is clearly wrong, but simply aren't able to stop it) But it doesn't mean a parent should refrain from showing affection on their child in the form of innocent kisses on the mouth. As a parent of three girls, I kiss them every single day. It's just something you do until the child grows out of it. My 9 y/o prefers hugs now, my 7 y/o wants the occasional kiss, and my 5 y/o will plant a 10 second kiss on me with a big smile and hug, and I love every minute of it.

It's easy to tell a child's affection apart from a child who clearly isn't comfortable with it. If anyone else would try to share a kiss with my children the way I do, the kids would look at me like that person had lost their mind. I'm not gonna give up these precious moments showering love on my children just because someone else doesn't agree with it. JMO
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Old 09-12-2009, 06:45 PM   #34
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But was it inappropriate, or inappropriate according to a society that doesn't kiss their ckildren on the lips?
Sure , we don't know for sure
but it's not like she was boarding a plane and he kissed her good bye
or was even kissing her goodnight at bed time

the reported inappropriate touching and prolonged mouth kissing in a pool make it seem more like something a man should not do with a child, it is not something I could ever imagine myself doing.

I have kissed women in pools and hot tubs many times, never a child.
I have kissed them good-bye and tucked them in bed with a kiss






Quote:
The couple thought the kiss, on the girl's mouth, and other signs of affection were "inappropriate" and alerted police, according to reports on the news websites G1, O Globo and Zero Hora.

The man, who was not named, was detained under a tough new Brazilian law introduced in August designed to clamp down on the sexual abuse of minors.

His Brazilian wife said she was near the pool at the time and insists the kiss was innocent.

The Italian was admitted to hospital on Sunday suffering high blood pressure and depression.

"We saw he was very tense, stressed and hadn't eaten. So we decided to get a doctor to look after him. After taking his blood pressure, the doctor decided he should be transferred to hospital for a series of tests," the man's lawyer, Flavio Jacinto, told Zero Hora.

Four witnesses at the hotel pool were questioned by police.

Two reportedly said that they, too, felt uncomfortable with the way the man was interacting with his daughter. One witness reportedly said the kiss was suspiciously lingering.

Quote:
"It was not a father-daughter situation," one witness told the television channel TV Verdes Mares, saying the man had touched his daughter in a "hot" manner.
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Old 09-12-2009, 07:45 PM   #35
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Deep, where's the article from? What source?
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Old 09-12-2009, 08:06 PM   #36
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Like you said, we'll never know.

Quote:
and other signs of affection were "inappropriate"
I have found, that when in a situation like this sometimes people will cover their tracks by saying "well it wasn't only that there were other things going on as well..." or "it wasn't just this time I've seen them more than once..." in order to come off not overreacting.

Quote:
Two reportedly said that they, too, felt uncomfortable with the way the man was interacting with his daughter. One witness reportedly said the kiss was suspiciously lingering.
But this once again can be a society thing.

I dated a girl once who was a fairly new transplant to TX and she once made a comment to me that she couldn't get over how many father's kiss their daughters here, or that my little neice would come over and just give me a kiss goodbye, or that when I greet my grandmother she gives me a kiss. She said this just wasn't done where she came from in the states. She first found it to be very inappropriate.
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Old 09-12-2009, 08:39 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Pearl View Post
Deep, where's the article from? What source?
I just googled the town name in news search and a bunch of articles popped up


Italian arrested for kissing daughter in Brazil in hospital



Italian Tourist Arrested in Rio de Janeiro Italian tourist arrested in Rio for kissing daughter - eTurboNews.com
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Old 09-12-2009, 08:44 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BVS View Post
Like you said, we'll never know


that my little niece would come over and just give me a kiss goodbye,

or that when I greet my grandmother she gives me a kiss.


a good-bye kiss or a greeting kiss,
I get (and give)

but would you ever get in the pool with your 8 year old niece and give her a lot of physical contact and a prolonged kiss on the mouth?
is not that what your girlfriend is for?

and if grandma made those moves on you in the pool
would you not be a bit surprised?
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Old 09-13-2009, 01:19 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by deep View Post
but would you ever get in the pool with your 8 year old niece and give her a lot of physical contact and a prolonged kiss on the mouth?
No, but with fathers it's different. Kisses just aren't for greetings and good-byes. At least that's how it is where I come from.

Now the concept of "prolonged" might be an issue, but to a society that isn't use to kissing on the lips, isn't any kiss prolonged? That's my point.
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Old 09-13-2009, 01:36 AM   #40
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via ANSA (the Italian equivalent of AP):
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Sao Paulo, September 11 -- An Italian man has been cleared of charges of groping his 8-year-old daughter in a Brazilian swimming pool, his lawyer told ANSA Friday. ''The case is closed for Brazilian justice,'' Flavio Jacinto Silva said. The lawyer stressed that the ''provisional'' nature of his client Giuliano Tuzi's release was a formality. ''Tuzi has been completely cleared and he can return to Italy when he wants.''

The businessman was arrested on Brazil's tough new paedophile laws ten days ago and faced 8-15 years in jail if charges of sexual molestation, brought on the testimony of two witnesses, were proved. The witnesses are reported to have claimed that ''more than just kisses'' were involved. Tuzi's Brazilian wife and his daughter rallied to his defence but one of the witnesses insisted she had thought ''the man and girl were lovers''. ''Even when they came out of the pool he carried on, kissing her twice on the lips,'' the witness was quoted as saying.

Tuzi was released two days after he suffered a dizzy spell in jail. Stress-related high blood pressure was later diagnosed. The man's lawyer said he was the victim of a ''gross'' miscarriage of justice. Brazilian prosecutors have been accused of being over-zealous in applying the new laws. Judicial sources say a shake-up is expected in the town of Fortaleza where Tuzi was arrested.

Tuzi told his lawyer he harboured no resentment against Brazil and voiced the hope the case would help the fight against paedophiles.
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Old 09-13-2009, 02:00 AM   #41
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I can't say any specifics about the article posted by the OP, but I definitely think society's backlash against pedophilia has gone too far. In school, the friendliest teachers are always joked about by kids as being pedophiles. I have a neighbor down the street who is very friendly and seems to genuinely love children, but he is also suspected to be a pedophile. I mean, if this were the internet I could see why a parent would be concerned, but fifty years ago, such genuinely friendly acts such as helping children home from the bus stop would not be viewed with such suspicion.

I mean...come on. Half the news stories we see nowadays deals with child molestation or child pornography or pedophilia or whatever. Is this really as big of an issue as we make it out to be?
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Old 09-13-2009, 07:14 AM   #42
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fathers should not be kissing daughters in public, but rather just in private.
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Old 09-13-2009, 04:42 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Zoomerang96 View Post
fathers should not be kissing daughters in public, but rather just in private.
Why?

To be honest, as an American myself, I find our culture very prudish.
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Old 09-13-2009, 05:35 PM   #44
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Don't think he was serious...
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Old 09-13-2009, 05:49 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yolland View Post
via ANSA (the Italian equivalent of AP):


Quote:
The businessman was arrested on Brazil's tough new paedophile laws ten days ago and faced 8-15 years in jail if charges of sexual molestation, brought on the testimony of two witnesses, were proved. The witnesses are reported to have claimed that ''more than just kisses'' were involved. Tuzi's Brazilian wife and his daughter rallied to his defence but one of the witnesses insisted she had thought ''the man and girl were lovers''. ''Even when they came out of the pool he carried on, kissing her twice on the lips,'' the witness was quoted as saying.

So this guy was kissing his daughter in the pool and when he got out of the pool, a couple more times on the mouth?


What is that 3 or 4 times in one hour?
and it was not a simple greeting or goodbye kiss.

3 times in one hour, on the mouth. that look like romantic kisses (for no reason)

how many a day is that?

perhaps 30 - 40 kisses a day from a grown man, on the mouth

BVS, would you call that normal behavior?

Will he still be doing this to her when she is 12? 14?
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