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Old 02-09-2011, 02:43 PM   #31
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But who decides what being masculine is all about - and why should women even have any input into defining it? Not being argumentative, I'm just intrigued by this subject.
I'm not defining it, it's just my opinion. You, and every other guy, can define it however you want. For me it's certainly a far cry from what this guy is selling. I do think that plenty of men define, or attempt to define, what feminine is.
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Old 02-10-2011, 12:06 AM   #32
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Wow, that guy sounds like a real charmer. I'm willing to bet money he doesn't do anything nice for anyone without expecting something in return.
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Old 02-11-2011, 01:03 PM   #33
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Men don't hate Valentine's Day, they fear it: study
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Old 02-11-2011, 01:23 PM   #34
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i do find female entitlement an interesting point. i haven't fully formulated my thoughts on the matter, but the most entitled females i know are single. they go through dudes like kleenex.
and yet somehow they can't figure out why...
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Old 02-11-2011, 01:33 PM   #35
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there seems to be an expectation of a male suitor of a certain income level who is both a guy's guy and yet able to not just meet but anticipate her every emotional need. there is an expectation that they will be treated in the manner in which their monied fathers have treated them, but yet be right in every disagreement. apologies, flowers, and homecooked dinners should follow each fight. genuinely interesting boyfriend prospects are discarded after a few dates because they don't measure up to a certain ideal that encompasses not just a specific physical ideal (actually, they are more forgiving on this than their male entitlement counterparts), but an economic and emotional one as well. failure to live up to specific expectations are not even just personal shortcomings, but actually slights against the female involved. you tell yourself that you won't just "settle," and you can point out the various numerous flaws in the spouses and relationships of all your female friends who have "settled," and you won't make those mistakes.
you have described one of my fiance's friends to a T, and you've never even met her. and lucky us, she's the friend that lives the closest to us.
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Old 02-11-2011, 01:45 PM   #36
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and yet somehow they can't figure out why...


right? i fully accept that some men knock potentially awesome women out of the running because of whatever physical hangups, but women do the same thing, only it's a different set of criteria and equally unrealistic and just as likely doomed to failure.
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Old 02-11-2011, 02:15 PM   #37
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aforementioned fiance's friend won't date anyone who isn't a lawyer, doctor, executive, [inserthighpayingjobhere], who went to a school that is known for great academics and has abs that you could grate cheese on, and when she finds said person, she starts talking about their future together (marriage, kids) after a couple of weeks.

and she wonders why she's still single. it's nauseating.
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Old 02-11-2011, 03:23 PM   #38
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I have to wonder what kinds of relationships women like this had with their fathers, that they apparently don't know the difference between being supported and protected vs. actually being loved and respected. Is this what "monied fathers" basically meant?
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Old 02-11-2011, 05:07 PM   #39
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aforementioned fiance's friend won't date anyone who isn't a lawyer, doctor, executive, [inserthighpayingjobhere], who went to a school that is known for great academics and has abs that you could grate cheese on, and when she finds said person, she starts talking about their future together (marriage, kids) after a couple of weeks.

and she wonders why she's still single. it's nauseating.
I have had a friendship with woman that is very much like that,
(we have been friends since she was 21, she is 37 now) of course she is very attractive and manages get dates with these alfa males.
She did get married, she settled for a great looking guy, she helped him land a great paying job in her industry, then he left her.
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Old 02-12-2011, 06:31 PM   #40
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aforementioned fiance's friend won't date anyone who isn't a lawyer, doctor, executive, [inserthighpayingjobhere], who went to a school that is known for great academics and has abs that you could grate cheese on, and when she finds said person, she starts talking about their future together (marriage, kids) after a couple of weeks.

and she wonders why she's still single. it's nauseating.
I have an acquantaince who used to be a little like this (perhaps not to the same extreme, but high paying professiona job, good academic record and reasonable sporting prowess were definitely requirements) and funnily enough subsequently went the opposite direction and shagged, ahem, sorry, I mean dated, a succession of muscular blue collar types, mainly Latino chefs and waiters.
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Old 02-14-2011, 10:54 AM   #41
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thought this was fun ... maybe ... but i can't not post it:



Quote:
Tracy McMillan


TV writer, Mad Men, United States of Tara
Posted: February 13, 2011 07:28 PM

Why You're Not Married

You want to get married. It's taken a while to admit it. Saying it out loud -- even in your mind -- feels kind of desperate, kind of unfeminist, kind of definitely not you, or at least not any you that you recognize. Because you're hardly like those girls on TLC saying yes to the dress and you would never compete for a man like those poor actress-wannabes on The Bachelor.

You've never dreamt of an aqua-blue ring box.

Then, something happened. Another birthday, maybe. A breakup. Your brother's wedding. His wife-elect asked you to be a bridesmaid, and suddenly there you were, wondering how in hell you came to be 36-years-old, walking down the aisle wearing something halfway decent from J. Crew that you could totally repurpose with a cute pair of boots and a jean jacket. You started to hate the bride -- she was so effing happy -- and for the first time ever you began to have feelings about the fact that you're not married. You never really cared that much before. But suddenly (it was so sudden) you found yourself wondering... Deep, deep breath... Why you're not married.

Well, I know why.

How? It basically comes down to this: I've been married three times. Yes, three. To a very nice MBA at 19; a very nice minister's son at 32 (and pregnant); and at 40, to a very nice liar and cheater who was just like my dad, if my dad had gone to Harvard instead of doing multiple stints in federal prison.

I was, for some reason, born knowing how to get married. Growing up in foster care is a big part of it. The need for security made me look for very specific traits in the men I dated -- traits it turns out lead to marriage a surprisingly high percentage of the time. Without really trying to, I've become a sort of jailhouse lawyer of relationships -- someone who's had to do so much work on her own case that I can now help you with yours.

But I won't lie. The problem is not men, it's you. Sure, there are lame men out there, but they're not really standing in your way. Because the fact is -- if whatever you're doing right now was going to get you married, you'd already have a ring on it. So without further ado, let's look at the top six reasons why you're not married.

1. You're a Bitch.
Here's what I mean by bitch. I mean you're angry. You probably don't think you're angry. You think you're super smart, or if you've been to a lot of therapy, that you're setting boundaries. But the truth is you're pissed. At your mom. At the military-industrial complex. At Sarah Palin. And it's scaring men off.

The deal is: most men just want to marry someone who is nice to them. I am the mother of a 13-year-old boy, which is like living with the single-cell protozoa version of a husband. Here's what my son wants out of life: macaroni and cheese, a video game, and Kim Kardashian. Have you ever seen Kim Kardashian angry? I didn't think so. You've seen Kim Kardashian smile, wiggle, and make a sex tape. Female anger terrifies men. I know it seems unfair that you have to work around a man's fear and insecurity in order to get married -- but actually, it's perfect, since working around a man's fear and insecurity is big part of what you'll be doing as a wife.

2. You're Shallow.
When it comes to choosing a husband, only one thing really, truly matters: character. So it stands to reason that a man's character should be at the top of the list of things you are looking for, right? But if you're not married, I already know it isn't. Because if you were looking for a man of character, you would have found one by now. Men of character are, by definition, willing to commit.

Instead, you are looking for someone tall. Or rich. Or someone who knows what an Eames chair is. Unfortunately, this is not the thinking of a wife. This is the thinking of a teenaged girl. And men of character do not want to marry teenaged girls. Because teenage girls are never happy. And they never feel like cooking, either.

3. You're a Slut.
Hooking up with some guy in a hot tub on a rooftop is fine for the ladies of Jersey Shore -- but they're not trying to get married. You are. Which means, unfortunately, that if you're having sex outside committed relationships, you will have to stop. Why? Because past a certain age, casual sex is like recreational heroin -- it doesn't stay recreational for long.

That's due in part to this thing called oxytocin -- a bonding hormone that is released when a woman a) nurses her baby and b) has an orgasm -- that will totally mess up your casual-sex game. It's why you can be f**k-buddying with some dude who isn't even all that great and the next thing you know, you're totally strung out on him. And you have no idea how it happened. Oxytocin, that's how it happened. And since nature can't discriminate between marriage material and Charlie Sheen, you're going to have to start being way more selective than you are right now.

4. You're a Liar.
It usually goes something like this: you meet a guy who is cute and likes you, but he's not really available for a relationship. He has some condition that absolutely precludes his availability, like he's married, or he gets around town on a skateboard. Or maybe he just comes right out and says something cryptic and open to interpretation like, "I'm not really available for a relationship right now."

You know if you tell him the truth -- that you're ready for marriage -- he will stop calling. Usually that day. And you don't want that. So you just tell him how perfect this is because you only want to have sex for fun! You love having fun sex! And you don't want to get in a relationship at all! You swear!
About ten minutes later, the oxytocin kicks in. You start wanting more. But you don't tell him that. That's your secret -- just between you and 22,000 of your closest girlfriends. Instead, you hang around, having sex with him, waiting for him to figure out that he can't live without you. I have news: he will never "figure" this out. He already knows he can live without you just fine. And so do you. Or you wouldn't be lying to him in the first place.

5. You're Selfish.
If you're not married, chances are you think a lot about you. You think about your thighs, your outfits, your naso-labial folds. You think about your career, or if you don't have one, you think about doing yoga teacher training. Sometimes you think about how marrying a wealthy guy -- or at least a guy with a really, really good job -- would solve all your problems.

Howevs, a good wife, even a halfway decent one, does not spend most of her day thinking about herself. She has too much s**t to do, especially after having kids. This is why you see a lot of celebrity women getting husbands after they adopt. The kids put the woman on notice: Bitch, hello! It's not all about you anymore! After a year or two of thinking about someone other than herself, suddenly, Brad Pitt or Harrison Ford comes along and decides to significantly other her. Which is also to say -- if what you really want is a baby, go get you one. Your husband will be along shortly. Motherhood has a way of weeding out the lotharios.

6. You're Not Good Enough.
Oh, I don't think that. You do. I can tell because you're not looking for a partner who is your equal. No, you want someone better than you are: better looking, better family, better job.

Here is what you need to know: You are enough right this minute. Period. Not understanding this is a major obstacle to getting married, since women who don't know their own worth make terrible wives. Why? You can fake it for a while, but ultimately you won't love your spouse any better than you love yourself. Smart men know this.

I see this at my son's artsy, progressive school. Of 183 kids, maybe six have moms who are as cute as you're trying to be. They're attractive, sure. They're just not objects. Their husbands (wisely) chose them for their character, not their cup size.

Alright, so that's the bad news. The good news is that I believe every woman who wants to can find a great partner. You're just going to need to get rid of the idea that marriage will make you happy. It won't. Once the initial high wears off, you'll just be you, except with twice as much laundry.

Because ultimately, marriage is not about getting something -- it's about giving it. Strangely, men understand this more than we do. Probably because for them marriage involves sacrificing their most treasured possession -- a free-agent penis -- and for us, it's the culmination of a princess fantasy so universal, it built Disneyland.

The bottom line is that marriage is just a long-term opportunity to practice loving someone even when they don't deserve it. Because most of the time, your messy, farting, macaroni-and-cheese eating man will not be doing what you want him to. But as you give him love anyway -- because you have made up your mind transform yourself into a person who is practicing being kind, deep, virtuous, truthful, giving, and most of all, accepting of your own dear self -you will find that you will experience the very thing you wanted all along:

Love.

Tracy McMillan: Why You're Not Married
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Old 02-14-2011, 03:24 PM   #42
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Wow. That article is special. Maybe the writer should concentrate on dumping her lying, cheating third husband instead of trying to make herself feel better by smugly lecturing women who have never been married on what slutty, impossible-to-please bitches they are.
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Old 02-14-2011, 03:32 PM   #43
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Wow. That article is special. Maybe the writer should concentrate on dumping her lying, cheating third husband instead of trying to make herself feel better by smugly lecturing women who have never been married on what slutty, impossible-to-please bitches they are.


you know what she'd say to your post?

"you see?"





(i'm not defending the article, the author, or saying you're wrong and possibly i agree with you ... i just posted it in here because it seemed along the lines of what we were talking about earlier)
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Old 02-14-2011, 03:39 PM   #44
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Instead of dispensing advice to singles, seeing as how she's on her third marriage, perhaps she should re-focus her energies on not getting married a fourth, fifth and sixth time.

Interestingly enough it is people like her who push the divorce rate to 50% or so. It is WAY lower than that if you look at people who have been married just once.
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Old 02-14-2011, 03:42 PM   #45
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I need to know at which "certain age" I should stop having casual sex. I mean, I'd hate for this delightful person to think I was a slut.
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