London's burning

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TheEdge_92 said:
No that's what has kicked it all off, if that didn't happen then there would be no riots.
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You're sure of that? With this much anger it seems like many things could have set it off, if it wasn't this, it would be something else.

You've done a lot of backtracking in here, but it still doesn't justify all your ignorant posts in this thread.



TheEdge_92 said:
Plus 3 people were shot yesterday, but it's not definite whether it's connected to the riots.
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Well then why even mention it?
 
BVS said:
You're sure of that? With this much anger it seems like many things could have set it off, if it wasn't this, it would be something else.

You've done a lot of backtracking in here, but it still doesn't justify all your ignorant posts in this thread.





Well then why even mention it?
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Yes am sure of it 100%.
 
TheEdge_92 said:
Here is an interesting read, which backs up what i've been saying on this topic.

The Elephant Bar: 80% 0f gun Crime in UK Committed by Blacks. Blacks Make Up 2% of UK Population. Please Do Not Mention It.
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that blogger needs to update her article as she has certainly got her facts wrong - the bullets have been identified as police-issued, the bullet lodged in the police radio and the bullets that killed Mark Duggan!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/09/mark-duggan-police-ipcc?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487

Mark Duggan, whose shooting by police sparked London's riots, did not fire a shot at police officers before they killed him, the Independent Police Complaints Commission said on Tuesday.

Releasing the initial findings of ballistics tests, the police watchdog said a CO19 firearms officer fired two bullets, and that a bullet that lodged in a police radio was "consistent with being fired from a police gun".

One theory, not confirmed by the IPCC, is that the bullet became lodged in the radio from a ricochet or after passing through Duggan.

Duggan, 29, was killed last Thursday in Tottenham, north London, after armed officers stopped the minicab in which he was travelling.

The IPCC said Duggan was carrying a loaded gun, but it had no evidence that the weapon had been fired. It said tests were continuing.

The officer who fired the fatal shots has been removed from firearms duties, which is standard procedure, pending the IPCC investigation.

Officers from the Met's Operation Trident and Special Crime Directorate 11, accompanied by officers from CO19, the Met's specialist firearms command, stopped the silver Toyota Estima minicab in Ferry Lane, close to Tottenham Hale tube station, to arrest Duggan.

He was killed by a single gunshot wound to the chest, and received a second gunshot wound to his right bicep. He was pronounced dead at the scene at 6.41pm.

The IPCC's statement said the bullet lodged in the police radio was a "jacketed round". This is a police-issue bullet and is "consistent with having been fired from a [police] Heckler and Koch MP5", it said.

The non-police firearm found at the scene was a converted BBM Bruni self-loading pistol. The gun was found to have a "bulleted cartridge" in the magazine, which is being subjected to further forensic tests.

The officer whose radio was hit was taken to Homerton hospital where he was examined and discharged later that night. The minicab driver was not injured but was badly shaken by what he saw, the IPCC said. His account, as well as those of the officers, is being examined along with the forensic evidence.

The police watchdog said it was examining CCTV footage of the area, including from buses passing by at the time.

The statement said: "Our investigators will be examining recordings of radio transmissions from both police and London ambulance service, including 999 calls, with a view to tracing further witnesses. We will also be examining any intelligence and surveillance material leading up to the planning of the operation."

The IPCC commissioner Rachel Cerfontyne said: "Any concerns expressed by the wider public about a perceived lack of information from the IPCC should be considered in the context that I am only willing to share information once I have had it independently verified and once the people who are directly involved in this case – including Mr Duggan's family and community leaders – have been fully informed."

An inquest into Duggan's death was opened at north London coroner's court on Tuesday. The coroner, Andrew Walker, adjourned the hearing to 12 December and offered his sympathies to Duggan's family.

"As members of the family will know, in due course there will be an inquest touching the death of Mark Duggan and this is the first stage in that process, he said. "Of course, as well as offering our deepest sympathies, I would like to reassure members of the family that we will be working closely with Mr Duggan's family and the IPCC throughout the process."

After the hearing, the family said they were "distressed" by the rioting in the wake of his death. In a statement on their behalf, Helen Shaw, from the organisation Inquest, said: "The family want everyone to know that the disorder going on has nothing to do with finding out what has happened to Mark. They also want people to know they are deeply distressed by the disorder affecting communities across the country."
 
mama cass said:
that blogger needs to update her article as she has certainly got her facts wrong - all of the bullets have been identified as police-issued - neither Mark Duggan nor the mini-cab driver were shooting!
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He was still carrying a fire arm though, which in this country is illegal.
 
mama cass said:
you really are trying to justify his death aren't you!
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Maybe not his death but he shouldn't of been on the streets. He had possession of a gun, only one reason to carry a gun and that's to cause harm. He was a drug dealer, so he was dirtying the streets. So he certainly shouldn't of been getting away with it. I don't condemn the killing at all, but if he's carrying a fire arm then he's posing a threat to others. Simple.
 
and jeesus it's "shouldn't have" not "shouldn't of" - i regret i ever defended you and your pathetic command of the english language!
 
This squabbling about gun crimes statistics and whose grammar is worse is becoming really distracting and preventing any kind of discussion about the actual riots. Let it go.
 
yolland said:
This squabbling about gun crimes statistics and whose grammar is worse is becoming really distracting and preventing any kind of discussion about the actual riots. Let it go.
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sorry Yolland, just saw your post - i'll drop it...
 
Whilst seeing my city go to shit is awful, the thing that really gets me is the irony of all of this.

The riots sprung out of a peaceful and well meaning protest against police/police brutality/lack of accountability, and have led to many people i know (and seemingly a general sentiment) in support of police. The protest was against how the police were acting, and now that message has completely been destroyed because the riots have just made authority seem much more necessary.
Not trying to explain how i think police should act, just that it's really sad that the original protest and its message seems completely useless now.

And then there's the explanation that these riots have come out of police oppression against youths or minorities in particular - that very well may be the case, but destroying local neighbourhoods will buy no sympathy, and will make it seem like such oppression was justified (at least, to the government).

So, not only is it horrible to see neighbourhoods, and local businesses and homes be destroyed, people robbed and injured, and left homeless, but any valid points against how the police act has been completely drowned out by these fucking moronic rioters.

As my friend put it, "They're not protestors, they're not even rioters. They're just cunts being cunts".
 
BVS said:
You're sure of that? With this much anger it seems like many things could have set it off, if it wasn't this, it would be something else.
Click to expand...

That's a very good point, BVS. And a very troubling one, too. Considering how unrelated the riots are to the original protest, these rampages must have a much deeper root (and so the problem as a whole must be more severe than a simple opportunistic offshoot from a protest).
 
JamietheEdgefan said:
Whilst seeing my city go to shit is awful, the thing that really gets me is the irony of all of this.

The riots sprung out of a peaceful and well meaning protest against police/police brutality/lack of accountability, and have led to many people i know (and seemingly a general sentiment) in support of police. The protest was against how the police were acting, and now that message has completely been destroyed because the riots have just made authority seem much more necessary.

Not trying to explain how i think police should act, just that it's really sad that the original protest and its message seems completely useless now... As my friend put it, "They're not protestors, they're not even rioters. They're just cunts being cunts".
Click to expand...

Well said. :up:

My friend from the very peaceful Faroe Islands posted this on his Facebook page earlier today: "Lack of empathy is the root of all violence. To understand violent actions, we may need to have empathy with those that ("appear to") lack empathy."

It's a hard task to accomplish sometimes -- especially in the face of such destruction. But the true roots of the riots (beyond the initial event itself), need to be explored by those in charge. If not, those 'cunts' your friend described will literally ruin everything -- including the ideological points -- for both sides.

...Another great one, from a London bookstore employee: "We'll stay open, if they steal some books they might learn something."
 
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