Liberal Arts Education. - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 12-27-2010, 02:43 AM   #16
Paper Gods
Forum Administrator
 
KhanadaRhodes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: a vampire in the limousine
Posts: 60,609
Local Time: 12:29 PM
i think liberal arts education is a waste of time and money. especially now that colleges seem to be piling on more and more high school part 2 crap that's made it more difficult to get a four year degree in, you know, four years. yet in other countries where you don't have to take science for an english major or math for a communications major, you can graduate easily in three years.

i already took plenty of math and science in high school and there's a reason my major is a foreign language - i don't want to do that stuff ever again. especially since most kids don't get to go on a full scholarship, they've got to borrow money to pay for a class that isn't essential to their major and they'll likely never use after completing the class. i'm sure it sucks for calculus professors because most students wouldn't take the class if they didn't have to so they'd teach a lot less classes (or be let go if a college were to switch from liberal arts to more specialised teaching), but oh well. it's not impossible: my boyfriend's mother is a college professor in tax and certainly doesn't only teach one class with five people in it or anything.

tl;dr: since a college degree is becoming more and more essential to get any sort of job, liberal arts education is something that just needs to go. it's a waste of time and money. it'd be better to take more classes that appeal to your major (or allow you to add a minor to your degree) instead of classes that couldn't have less to do with it.
__________________

__________________
KhanadaRhodes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2010, 10:40 PM   #17
The Fly
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 130
Local Time: 02:29 PM
perhaps i phrased my initial post wrong ... i wasn't referring to the idea of a required core curriculum. i guess by "liberal arts" i meant humanities and the like and majors that many people would consider "useless" (philosophy, gender studies, classics, languages, literature, art, etc - as in, should these majors even continued to be offered.

as for the "only take what pertains to your major" logic, that's all fine and good if you actually know what you want to major in. many people have no idea what they want to do when they first enter college, or they change their minds. also, i think there's something to be said for taking a class that is interesting to you even if it isn't related to your final career path. i don't think we should require students to take classes in a bunch of different disciplines, but i certainly don't think it should be discouraged. knowledge and education ought to be valued. so i have to disagree with the notion that learning for the sake of learning is "a waste of time and money." but, to each his own.
__________________

__________________
collapse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2010, 10:52 PM   #18
Blue Crack Addict
 
Liesje's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In the dog house
Posts: 19,557
Local Time: 01:29 PM
Are there schools that brand themselves "liberal arts" that do not have a required core curriculum? Where I work they market themselves based on the emphasis on the core curriculum, and not necessarily majoring in humanities, but being required to take them and having a very broad range of majors/programs. Our school would not exist if majors in the humanities were no longer available, so I guess that answers the question of whether or not they should be offered.
__________________
Liesje is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2010, 02:29 AM   #19
Paper Gods
Forum Administrator
 
KhanadaRhodes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: a vampire in the limousine
Posts: 60,609
Local Time: 12:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by collapse View Post
as for the "only take what pertains to your major" logic, that's all fine and good if you actually know what you want to major in. many people have no idea what they want to do when they first enter college, or they change their minds. also, i think there's something to be said for taking a class that is interesting to you even if it isn't related to your final career path. i don't think we should require students to take classes in a bunch of different disciplines, but i certainly don't think it should be discouraged. knowledge and education ought to be valued. so i have to disagree with the notion that learning for the sake of learning is "a waste of time and money." but, to each his own.
true, but that's what electives are for. even now going to a non-liberal arts college, there's still electives i must take. plus i wouldn't call forcing some 19 year old to take calculus learning for the sake of learning. i'd be willing to bet that if you polled students in a calculus class who were not taking it because it would directly apply to their major, they don't enjoy it. they take it because they have to, and probably would rather not take it if possible. certainly you're going to get people who take a class because they have to and find themselves really clicking with it and possibly adjusting their major accordingly, but surely that's the exception and not the norm.
__________________
KhanadaRhodes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2010, 09:31 AM   #20
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
2861U2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: watching the Cubs
Posts: 4,255
Local Time: 01:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by anitram View Post
I still think that the point of a college education (at the bachelor level anyway) is to teach you to think critically. This can then be applied to any number of fields.
I agree. The first class I went to on my first day of freshman year, my professor said that the goal of college is for you to learn how to learn, and if you can successfully know how to teach yourself something by the time you graduate, you've pretty much succeeded. That's always stuck with me.
__________________
2861U2 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2010, 10:55 AM   #21
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 24,984
Local Time: 01:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by anitram View Post
I still think that the point of a college education (at the bachelor level anyway) is to teach you to think critically
I agree with that too. I majored in sociology and never did anything related to that. I had an economics professor who tried to talk me into changing to a business or economics major, but I knew it wasn't for me. In retrospect do I wish I had done that? Sometimes. But considering the fact that even a vocational type of degree is no guarantee of a job and/or career these days I don't see how it makes that much of a difference. I think internships and professional work experience (even if it's volunteer) are much more important-something I never did in college.

I wanted to go to graduate school but I couldn't afford it.
__________________
MrsSpringsteen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2010, 10:30 PM   #22
The Fly
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 130
Local Time: 02:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KhanadaRhodes View Post
true, but that's what electives are for. even now going to a non-liberal arts college, there's still electives i must take. plus i wouldn't call forcing some 19 year old to take calculus learning for the sake of learning. i'd be willing to bet that if you polled students in a calculus class who were not taking it because it would directly apply to their major, they don't enjoy it. they take it because they have to, and probably would rather not take it if possible. certainly you're going to get people who take a class because they have to and find themselves really clicking with it and possibly adjusting their major accordingly, but surely that's the exception and not the norm.
well yeah, i'm not saying all college students should be required to take calculus. i think core requirements should be very limited or completely absent, especially since most core reqs are basically high school repeats (as i believe you mentioned). i don't mind the way my school does it so much because we have "distribution requirements" - Natural & Mathematical Sciences, Social & Historical Sciences, and Arts & Humanities. since the fields are extremely broad students have a lot of leeway. i only took one math class, and "The Social and Historical Impact of Video Games" counted toward my S&H requirement.

but yea, i'm a fan of electives, not requirements. i'm saying i think students should be encouraged to explore their interests in college, not required to take things that don't interest them. and i agree with what anitram and 2861U2 said about the point of college. yes, you get the degree to get a job, but you learn skills while you're in college working toward that degree which should stay with you forever. i think the ability to think critically and teach yourself things as well as obtaining knowledge about various subjects enhances you as a person.
__________________
collapse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2011, 03:22 AM   #23
Babyface
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2
Local Time: 01:29 PM
I agree with lot of the comments here. College is to explore and folks should focus more on 'University of Life' concepts rather than some course work required for you to take. However, I think its because of the way the system is setup. we are forced to take 'requirements' because the people controlling the system had to. And with no bad intent, they feel because they went through it, it must be right and it made them a better professional. So we cannot change the system as per these 'influential/decision making' people. so now we are forced to take some requirements whcih necessarily is not applicable to all. live and learn I guess, that how i view it.
__________________
shreya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2011, 10:35 PM   #24
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Bono's shades's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: The back of beyond
Posts: 5,038
Local Time: 01:29 PM
Do what you love, Collapse. If you major in math of finance or engineering or something like that but don't have a passion or aptitude for it, you will probably have trouble getting/keeping a job in that field anyway, and even if you do, you will be miserable.
__________________
Bono's shades is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2011, 08:38 PM   #25
Jesus Online
 
Angela Harlem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: a glass castle
Posts: 30,163
Local Time: 05:29 AM
I can't fathom spending tens of thousands of dollars on a degree that will not get you a job/career to match. I figure your liberal art degrees are the same as our bachelor of arts degrees, and if so, they're unfortunately a long 3 years spent studying with no real career prospects at the end. Your degrees in the US cost sooo much more, and so many of you study them with, I assume, the knowledge that they won't really take you far. I just cannot grasp this well. Humanities are a great field, arts is wonderful, but when it is costing that much? I don't understand.
__________________
<a href=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/angelaharlem/thPaul_Roos28.jpg target=_blank>http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...aul_Roos28.jpg</a>
Angela Harlem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2011, 08:44 PM   #26
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
the iron horse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: in a glass of CheerWine
Posts: 3,251
Local Time: 01:29 PM
Actually, all education is self-education. A teacher is only a guide, to point out the way, and no school, no matter how excellent, can give you education.


What you receive is like the outlines in a child’s coloring book. You must fill in the colors yourself.



~Louis L'Amour
__________________
the iron horse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2011, 10:43 PM   #27
Blue Crack Addict
 
Liesje's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In the dog house
Posts: 19,557
Local Time: 01:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angela Harlem View Post
I can't fathom spending tens of thousands of dollars on a degree that will not get you a job/career to match. I figure your liberal art degrees are the same as our bachelor of arts degrees, and if so, they're unfortunately a long 3 years spent studying with no real career prospects at the end. Your degrees in the US cost sooo much more, and so many of you study them with, I assume, the knowledge that they won't really take you far. I just cannot grasp this well. Humanities are a great field, arts is wonderful, but when it is costing that much? I don't understand.
Like someone said earlier, now employers want you to have a BA just to work retail or bag groceries. It's like the new GED or high school diploma... the piece of paper alone doesn't mean anything but unless you have other trade skills you often can't go far without it. My mom's co-worker was required to go back to school after 40 years and get a degree just to keep a job she's already qualified for.

There's not really a "liberal arts degree", it's a Bachelor of Arts or Bachelor of Science. Liberal arts refers more to how the college/university's core curriculum is structured. Humanities are probably encouraged more at a liberal arts school than other places, but you can go to a liberal arts school for engineering, nursing, computer science, etc. Liberal arts schools generally require about two years worth of "core" courses in pretty much every area of study (science, math, English, lit, foreign language, recreation/sport, music, art, communications, economics, sociology, computer...). I have a BA in Business Communications and have taken courses in criminal forensics, cellular biology, Jane Austen lit, modern dance, and studied micro-development IN Tanzania.

It's not that a BA and/or liberal arts course of study cost more, it just doesn't seem as worth it as four years for something like engineering, nursing, or teaching.
__________________
Liesje is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2011, 10:56 PM   #28
Babyface
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2
Local Time: 01:29 PM
liberal arts education is all about ur intellectual capacity. and also intersting college .... u should go through lots of such sites that will help to chose a subject.. i know one site www.liberalartscolleges.org.... i will try to search more and will inform about it...
__________________
shreya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2011, 12:43 PM   #29
War Child
 
Dfit00's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Palm Beach, FL
Posts: 893
Local Time: 02:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liesje View Post
Like someone said earlier, now employers want you to have a BA just to work retail or bag groceries. It's like the new GED or high school diploma... the piece of paper alone doesn't mean anything but unless you have other trade skills you often can't go far without it. My mom's co-worker was required to go back to school after 40 years and get a degree just to keep a job she's already qualified for.

There's not really a "liberal arts degree", it's a Bachelor of Arts or Bachelor of Science. Liberal arts refers more to how the college/university's core curriculum is structured. Humanities are probably encouraged more at a liberal arts school than other places, but you can go to a liberal arts school for engineering, nursing, computer science, etc. Liberal arts schools generally require about two years worth of "core" courses in pretty much every area of study (science, math, English, lit, foreign language, recreation/sport, music, art, communications, economics, sociology, computer...). I have a BA in Business Communications and have taken courses in criminal forensics, cellular biology, Jane Austen lit, modern dance, and studied micro-development IN Tanzania.

It's not that a BA and/or liberal arts course of study cost more, it just doesn't seem as worth it as four years for something like engineering, nursing, or teaching.
BA degree programs have a more lenient courseload and are therefore considered "easy" because they don't involve high level science and math in contrast with almost all BS degree programs. High school kids need to be acquainted about this fact, and it's up to them to choose which degree path and area of study to pursue.

Only about 28% of all the US population has a bachelor's degree or higher, which is somewhat low compared to other industrialized nations in Europe and Asia. People in the US usually wonder what the other 72% of people that don't have a college degree do for a living...

Talent and self-expression sometimes pays better than knowledge and experience.
__________________
Dfit00 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2011, 12:54 PM   #30
Blue Crack Addict
 
Liesje's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In the dog house
Posts: 19,557
Local Time: 01:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfit00 View Post
BA degree programs have a more lenient courseload and are therefore considered "easy" because they don't involve high level science and math in contrast with almost all BS degree programs.
But, we're talking about liberal arts curriculum that generally require math and science courses even for BAs. Everyone has the same "core" requirements regardless of what degree or program they choose. Liberal arts is not synonymous with BA, that is the point I've been trying to make. I work for a college that sells itself as a "liberal arts" school and that refers to the core curriculum, not that there is more pressure to do a BA program vs. a BS program. The BS programs require the same arts and humanities courses as the BAs.
__________________

__________________
Liesje is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
college, education, humanities, liberal arts, university

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com