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Old 06-02-2013, 05:45 AM   #31
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Yeah, because the lefties are evil apparently.


No but really, I think it's more something along the lines where higher educated people are more responsible, thus use more protection so they have less unwanted pregnancies, and because of their usually busier careers and longer times in university and such, they start later with children. While the lower educated people have higher rates of teenage pregnancies, and commonly start earlier with children and have more of them. So the 'dumb' genes procreate at a higher pace, and with our glorious healthcare stupidity doesn't kill as easily as back in the days where you'd get eaten by a sabre tooth tiger, thus evolutonary speaking our generations are getting dumber.
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Old 06-02-2013, 06:23 AM   #32
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I get the impression that many people lump intelligence of all kinds together. Ever knew someone who seems really bright but then does something very stupid, baffling everyone around them? I may have good analyzing and communication skills, but when it comes to anything related to math, I am the complete opposite (seriously, my SAT scores reflect that). I'm pretty sure I have dyscalculia - math dyslexia - although I've never been tested for it. I guess to some, I have only limited smarts.
Also, dumb and uneducated are not the same thing.
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Old 06-02-2013, 06:25 AM   #33
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with our glorious healthcare stupidity doesn't kill as easily as back in the days where you'd get eaten by a sabre tooth tiger, thus evolutonary speaking our generations are getting dumber.

Sometimes I think that in this respect, Darwin is spinning in his grave.
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Old 06-02-2013, 07:35 AM   #34
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Species breed to the mean.

Something to keep in mind, no pun intended.
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Old 06-02-2013, 02:10 PM   #35
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Yeah, because the lefties are evil apparently.


No but really, I think it's more something along the lines where higher educated people are more responsible, thus use more protection so they have less unwanted pregnancies, and because of their usually busier careers and longer times in university and such, they start later with children. While the lower educated people have higher rates of teenage pregnancies, and commonly start earlier with children and have more of them. So the 'dumb' genes procreate at a higher pace, and with our glorious healthcare stupidity doesn't kill as easily as back in the days where you'd get eaten by a sabre tooth tiger, thus evolutonary speaking our generations are getting dumber.
The benefit for the genes of the smarter people is that, unlike the cells in the rest of the body, telomeres in the sperm cells grow longer with age. By waiting later in life to reproduce, the offspring will have chromosomes with longer telomere 'caps' than had they been conceived earlier. Telomeres erode throughout life during mitosis, so starting out with longer telomeres can mean a longer life span. At least the smart people will outlive the dumb ones.

(this is partly tongue in cheek. I think it was irvine who pointed out earlier than intelligence wasn't necessarily inherited that way.)
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Old 06-02-2013, 02:17 PM   #36
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with our glorious healthcare stupidity doesn't kill as easily as back in the days where you'd get eaten by a sabre tooth tiger, thus evolutonary speaking our generations are getting dumber.
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Sometimes I think that in this respect, Darwin is spinning in his grave.
Well, when you start applying this logic with the handicapped, mentally retarded, blind, sick, etc, things get a little uncomfortable.
Darwin would have had no problem with any of this. He wasn't interested in a 'Darwinian Society', as aren't virtually all evolutionary biologists
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Old 06-02-2013, 06:41 PM   #37
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Well, when you start applying this logic with the handicapped, mentally retarded, blind, sick, etc, things get a little uncomfortable.
Darwin would have had no problem with any of this. He wasn't interested in a 'Darwinian Society', as aren't virtually all evolutionary biologists
Right. It wasn't to be taken entirely seriously, and it also applied more toward the persistently vegetative and otherwise terminal patients who (and it's always the extremely religious families, big surprise) still expect everything to be done to prolong their bed-bound, non- verbal states. Otherwise you're bordering a little too closely to...genetic cleansing? Is that a name for it? And that's where things get creepy. The majority of evolutionary biologists out there aren't insane, irrational human beings with theses that are half origin of the species, half mien kampf. That would be ridiculous for so many reasons.
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Old 06-02-2013, 06:52 PM   #38
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Old 06-02-2013, 08:26 PM   #39
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Right. It wasn't to be taken entirely seriously, and it also applied more toward the persistently vegetative and otherwise terminal patients who (and it's always the extremely religious families, big surprise) still expect everything to be done to prolong their bed-bound, non- verbal states. Otherwise you're bordering a little too closely to...genetic cleansing? Is that a name for it? And that's where things get creepy. The majority of evolutionary biologists out there aren't insane, irrational human beings with theses that are half origin of the species, half mien kampf. That would be ridiculous for so many reasons.
Eugenics
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Old 06-02-2013, 08:44 PM   #40
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There we go. Sorry, my vocabulary decreases by about 60% when I haven't had coffee yet.
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Old 06-03-2013, 11:02 AM   #41
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Well, when you start applying this logic with the handicapped, mentally retarded, blind, sick, etc, things get a little uncomfortable.
Darwin would have had no problem with any of this. He wasn't interested in a 'Darwinian Society', as aren't virtually all evolutionary biologists
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Right. It wasn't to be taken entirely seriously, and it also applied more toward the persistently vegetative and otherwise terminal patients who (and it's always the extremely religious families, big surprise) still expect everything to be done to prolong their bed-bound, non- verbal states. Otherwise you're bordering a little too closely to...genetic cleansing? Is that a name for it? And that's where things get creepy. The majority of evolutionary biologists out there aren't insane, irrational human beings with theses that are half origin of the species, half mien kampf. That would be ridiculous for so many reasons.
Both of you are correct of course. It's a thin line we'd walk when deciding on other people's lives.

But to be honest, people like IWasBored talks about, the 'vegetables', what life do they have? They have a body, but that's about it. No conscious mind, no chance they ever will. I know this will be considered ethically wrong and won't make me popular here, but to me that is a waste of money and bed space just because the family isn't willing to say good bye. That person has 0% chance of ever getting up and function normally again, why do you keep hanging on instead of moving on with your life? Being struck in grief years after years has got to take its toll on people as well.

Yes, if I ever get into a permanent coma, I'd want the plug to be pulled. I already stated that to my family if it ever happens.
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Old 06-03-2013, 11:27 AM   #42
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Both of you are correct of course. It's a thin line we'd walk when deciding on other people's lives.

But to be honest, people like IWasBored talks about, the 'vegetables', what life do they have? They have a body, but that's about it. No conscious mind, no chance they ever will. I know this will be considered ethically wrong and won't make me popular here, but to me that is a waste of money and bed space just because the family isn't willing to say good bye. That person has 0% chance of ever getting up and function normally again, why do you keep hanging on instead of moving on with your life? Being struck in grief years after years has got to take its toll on people as well.

Yes, if I ever get into a permanent coma, I'd want the plug to be pulled. I already stated that to my family if it ever happens.
I actually agree with you. I feel it is immoral to leave a person in a vegetative state just because a machine can keep them breathing. It also isn't right for the loved ones to be left in limbo over whether that person will wake up or not. But it is their choice.
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Old 06-04-2013, 12:11 AM   #43
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Even worse than being a vegetable is having Locked-In Syndrome. Basically, you appear to be in a vegetative state, but are fully aware. Sometimes years or decades go by before it is properly diagnosed. Fuck that
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Old 06-04-2013, 12:24 AM   #44
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Old 06-04-2013, 12:34 AM   #45
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I don't wanna talk to a scientist / y'all motherfuckers lying and getting me pissed
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