KNIFE CRIME up in the U.K.

[Hobo13]

Not my point, my point was to find where the line is drawn for "normal" "law abiding" citizens.

Seems to me, wherever it's drawn, it's going to be somewhat fuzzy.

 

[bigjohn2441]

That's pretty much the type of society that New Labour have created. One where driving 1mph over the speed limit is a big deal but nothing is done about knife crime. I am Irish, not British, but we have the same kind of thing here.

I utterly despise New Labour. I mean that.

thats cause speeding generates money, knife crimes do not, they are just a pain in the ass to for the police to try and solve.

 

[HyperU2]

In the UK, disproportionately Afro-Caribbean youths are both prepretators and victims of these crimes, but you won't find that information in the mainstream media, with the possible exception of the Daily Mail.

It's kind of the same story in US but it's more PC to blame guns. Oh well.


The UK kicks our ass overall when it comes to most violent crime, it's not really that shocking.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_ass_vic-crime-assault-victims

 

[The Sad Punk]

It's kind of the same story in US but it's more PC to blame guns. Oh well.


The UK kicks our ass overall when it comes to most violent crime, it's not really that shocking.

Assault victims statistics - countries compared - NationMaster

Wow, I had no idea Australia and NZ were up so high! At least our knife criminals are few and far between.

 

[deep]

It's kind of the same story in US but it's more PC to blame guns. Oh well.


The UK kicks our ass overall when it comes to most violent crime, it's not really that shocking.

Assault victims statistics - countries compared - NationMaster

you know what they say about figures


Assaults (per capita) (most recent) by country

 

[deep]

Murders (per capita) statistics - countries compared - NationMaster

and per capita, the U Ks murder rate is 1/3 of the U S.
the assault rates are pretty close

I guess guns make a difference

 

[mysterious_jen]

You could tell if it was a vegan by his use of a potato knive.

PMSL.


that is post of the day .

 

[bigjohn2441]

just got back from the shooting range with the old man. great fun!

 

[Irvine511]

and per capita, the U Ks murder rate is 1/3 of the U S.
the assault rates are pretty close

I guess guns make a difference

and this is exactly the point.

the Yanks aren't any more violent than the Brits. we're just better armed.

 

[HyperU2]

just got back from the shooting range with the old man. great fun!

And no one died? Holy shit.

 

[Irvine511]

And no one died? Holy shit.

i know, it's so awesome to live in America. we're all awesome and shit and our lives are like "Die Hard."

in the UK, its like nancy-pants "West Side Story."

 

[deep]

john lives on an island in the caribbean

 

[bigjohn2441]

^ actually im home this week on vacation.

for my vacation i went FROM the caribbean to PA.

 

[bigjohn2441]

And no one died? Holy shit.

just the trees that were made into the targets.

 

[Vincent Vega]

And what in the world does a shooting range have to do with armed people walking through the city streets?

 

[BVS]

for my vacation i went FROM the caribbean to PA.

 

[bigjohn2441]

^ AND the even funnier part is i got sunburnt like hell a couple days ago (in PA), but i cant get a tan down there cause i work 7 days a week!

 

[the iron horse]

just proves my point that you cant stop crime by banning things. they ban knives then baseball bat crime will be up.

you got to go after what causes crime.

if "qualified" people, and you know what i mean by this, were permitted to carry firearms for self defense, these knife crimes wouldnt be going through the roof

and id rather not give my wallet to anyone

I agree bigjohn2441

It's the weapons of the evil heart that are the cause.

 

[Irvine511]

I agree bigjohn2441

It's the weapons of the evil heart that are the cause.

then why do more people die in the US than the UK?

could it be because of the weapons of the evil hand help out the evil heart?

 

[the iron horse]

then why do more people die in the US than the UK?

could it be because of the weapons of the evil hand help out the evil heart?

What is in control?

The evil heart or evil hand?


Or is it inanimate objects?
A gun, a knife, a rock, a club....?

 

[bigjohn2441]

then why do more people die in the US than the UK?

could it be because of the weapons of the evil hand help out the evil heart?

US - 300 million people

UK - 61 million people

the issue here isnt guns vs knives, the real issue is simply banning things vs going after crime and what causes it.

you ban guns there will still be crime and people will still kill eachother, regardless of guns making it easier to kill someone vs other weapons. all banning things does is take away freedoms of people who arent criminals and dont kill people, because of a few bad apples. i think we would make more progress if we went after what causes crime as opposed to just banning stuff.

 

[HyperU2]

We have a whole different culture than the UK. It's not solely a black and white issue but as mentioned earlier most of the UK knife crime is black, and the same goes for the US gun crime.

 

[Irvine511]

What is in control?

The evil heart or evil hand?


Or is it inanimate objects?
A gun, a knife, a rock, a club....?

the evil heart is way more deadly when it has a gun.

ever hear of a drive by stoning?

i find the argument that people are just as deadly with knives (if they want to be) than with guns is absolutely preposterous.

soldiers are armed for a reason, yo.

 

[Irvine511]

US - 300 million people

UK - 61 million people

the issue here isnt guns vs knives, the real issue is simply banning things vs going after crime and what causes it.

you ban guns there will still be crime and people will still kill eachother, regardless of guns making it easier to kill someone vs other weapons. all banning things does is take away freedoms of people who arent criminals and dont kill people, because of a few bad apples. i think we would make more progress if we went after what causes crime as opposed to just banning stuff.

all this has been adjusted per capita. the truth stands: violent assaults are roughly the same, but the murder rate, because of handguns, is vastly higher in the US.

it is, indeed, an issue of guns, though guns are just one of many issues.

there's no question that if there were fewer guns, there would be fewer murders.

 

[bigjohn2441]

there's no question that if there were fewer guns, there would be fewer murders.

of course. if guns never existed there would be less deaths than now. but that's a moot point, they DO exist and just banning them wont stop gun violence and death.

 

[BVS]

of course. if guns never existed there would be less deaths than now. but that's a moot point, they DO exist and just banning them wont stop gun violence and death.

So to you it's the difference between stopping and reducing... If it would stop death you'd be all for it, but since it will only reduce it, it's not worth it?

 

[bigjohn2441]

my freedoms being taken away by these "bannings" that dont seem to stop anything.

id rather go after the causes of crime and keep some of my freedom.

 

[Irvine511]

of course. if guns never existed there would be less deaths than now. but that's a moot point, they DO exist and just banning them wont stop gun violence and death.

my freedoms being taken away by these "bannings" that dont seem to stop anything.

id rather go after the causes of crime and keep some of my freedom.

what's more important? dead kids or your freedom? seems like you're admitting that you can't have both.

does a reduction in the availability of firearms not result in less death? look at the availability of firearms in Texas and then in Massachusetts. what state has a higher murder rate? can that all be explained by income and education?

or, better, look at households of equal income. how much more likely do you think there is that there will be a death by firearm in a house with a gun than a house without?

what is it about guns that makes you feel so free? why can't you go to the shooting range, rent a gun, shoot it, then put it back like a pair of bowling shoes?

it seems to me that people whine about guns and "freedom" in the way that they whine about not wanting to feel guilty about driving an earth-raping, dictator-funding SUV that gets 12mpg. i'm sorry, i'm not going to allow you to feel like your choices have no consequences and that just because you find something pleasurable doesn't mean that there aren't enormous social repercussions.

 

[bigjohn2441]

what is it about guns that makes you feel so free? why can't you go to the shooting range, rent a gun, shoot it, then put it back like a pair of bowling shoes?

well MY gun was issued to me by the US government and i kind of need it for my job.

it seems to me that people whine about guns and "freedom" in the way that they whine about not wanting to feel guilty about driving an earth-raping, dictator-funding SUV that gets 12mpg. i'm sorry, i'm not going to allow you to feel like your choices have no consequences and that just because you find something pleasurable doesn't mean that there aren't enormous social repercussions.

who's whining? guns arent banned.

i agree with you on the SUVs. but MY guns arent responsibe for deaths. i've never killed anyone have hope i never have to, on the job or at home. so you take away my guns, knives, whatever, then i can clearly less free than i was before. simple. and why? what law have i broken that i need to be banned from owning certain things, because of something SOMEONE ELSE has done? some asshole wants to kill someone, so it screws all the law-abiding people over. im sure there are a LOT more people like me than the criminal killers.

im not against stronger controls, but am totally against BANNING things.

and that is my whole point BANNING things vs prevention.

like ive asked before, if we all were healthy, well-educated, and financially well off and had non-intrusive governments and were pretty much free to do as we wanted as long as we didnt interfere with others' rights, would we still feel the need to kill eachother?

 

[Irvine511]

who's whining? guns arent banned.

the NRA seems to think so.

i agree with you on the SUVs. but MY guns arent responsibe for deaths.

but your right to bear arms is responsible for deaths.

i've never killed anyone have hope i never have to, on the job or at home. so you take away my guns, knives, whatever, then i can clearly less free than i was before. simple. and why? what law have i broken that i need to be banned from owning certain things, because of something SOMEONE ELSE has done? some asshole wants to kill someone, so it screws all the law-abiding people over. im sure there are a LOT more people like me than the criminal killers.

i'm sure lots of people enjoy Demerol, but that doesn't mean it didn't kill Michael Jackson, and that doesn't mean that it's potential dangers outweigh it's benefits and thusly should be strictly controlled or, yes, banned.

im not against stronger controls, but am totally against BANNING things.

lots of things are banned. i agree that many shouldn't. but i think you can make a very clear case that guns represent a threat to public health. so what do we do about it?