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Old 12-04-2010, 08:08 AM   #16
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Old 12-04-2010, 10:53 AM   #17
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One not-so-nice guy told me to my face that I wasn't a "real woman" which of course hurt.

Well you know that you are so you just have to say f him and anyone else who would say things like that.

It gets easier and easier as you go along, trust me
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Old 12-04-2010, 11:43 AM   #18
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In my experience, guys do not like successful and ambitious women. Back when I had a full time job, I was independent and did not rely on anyone to help me with projects. This pissed off a lot of the guys I worked with because I was never the damsel in distress. I couldn't understand why the needy girls got all the guys while I was left in the dust. One not-so-nice guy told me to my face that I wasn't a "real woman" which of course hurt.
Charming . That sucks, I'm sorry you had to go through that.

Thankfully, though, as evidenced by this thread, there do seem to be some men out there who are mature and secure enough in their masculinity who wouldn't dream of behaving like that. Hopefully you'll be able to encounter more of them over time.

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I still don't know quite why she decided I was worth it.
Because you're a really nice and smart guy . Those qualities pay off well in life.

I fully agree with the comments about women out there who look down upon men who don't make as much as them, that's true, sadly they exist, too. If a person bases their relationship entirely on what other people will think of their chosen mate, then they're in for a world of problems. The people judging you have their own relationship issues, too, perhaps even more so, because it's hard to nurture your own relationship when you're obsessively invested in how others are running theirs. They're not perfect, either, and they're not the ones going home with your significant other at the end of the night, you are, so what business is it of theirs, anyway?

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Oh really? I don´t know.. some women like artists at first but get fed up easily; artists are not easy to deal with sometimes I guess

I think many artists want a true independent strong woman, not an asshole but self confident.
Judging from my experience of hanging out with guys who are more artsy-types, I can agree with that last sentence. I hope that's true of many men.

I was just going on my own personal tastes. I tend to like guys who are into the arts/literature side of things . You are right, though, they do come with their own set of problems and issues. But given that I tend to be into arts and literature type stuff, too, I guess I can sympathize with that a bit more.

Angela
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Old 12-04-2010, 12:07 PM   #19
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The authors should ask other questions as well: Does a powerful woman want to be with a men who is not representative? I bet representation is very important when she goes to the next cocktail party to chat with her clients, bosses or rich friends. She doesn´t want the poor sod by her side, right.. after all, what would people think?
I think you do bring up a good point here because it does happen in the business world.

I've also seen a different side of it a number of times where a girlfriend of mine was dating somebody who was not a professional - he was hard working, but blue-collar job like construction or some sort of factory work, etc. And I can think of two examples where the men actually broke up with the women because they said that they felt uncomfortable at these events, that they were boring for them, they had nothing to talk to these people about and that one or two nights a week accompanying their spouse to such networking was making them resentful of taking up time they could be doing things that were actually enjoyable with them. They also really tried hard to avoid social events that only included lawyers (for example if 10 of us agreed that we hadn't seen each other in months and planned on a dinner on Friday night, these two would never show up on the "I don't really want to hang out with a bunch of lawyers" excuse.)

My SO works in a related field (banking) and makes more $ than I do. Similarly educated. To be honest, it is a major relief to me that externalities concerning money and status are just issues that we've never had because it has come up for me in other situations.
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Old 12-04-2010, 12:33 PM   #20
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I've also seen a different side of it a number of times where a girlfriend of mine was dating somebody who was not a professional - he was hard working, but blue-collar job like construction or some sort of factory work, etc. And I can think of two examples where the men actually broke up with the women because they said that they felt uncomfortable at these events, that they were boring for them, they had nothing to talk to these people about and that one or two nights a week accompanying their spouse to such networking was making them resentful of taking up time they could be doing things that were actually enjoyable with them. They also really tried hard to avoid social events that only included lawyers (for example if 10 of us agreed that we hadn't seen each other in months and planned on a dinner on Friday night, these two would never show up on the "I don't really want to hang out with a bunch of lawyers" excuse.)
God, the effrontery. Pass the smelling salts.
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Old 12-04-2010, 12:48 PM   #21
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I'll admit I could never have had a serious relationship with an "artsy" guy, at least one like the few I've known. They were all "the world just doesn't understand me", moping around all day surrounded by their "art", living in mom's basement types. Often I wanted to say just grow up and get a job like the rest of us! I guess I find any level of helplessness and "woe is me" very unattractive; I don't really care what exactly it is a guy does as long as he gets the job done.
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Old 12-04-2010, 01:51 PM   #22
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so.............

what are you doing for dinner..........
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Old 12-04-2010, 07:36 PM   #23
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The love that we need
I believe, call me naïve
Love is for free
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Old 12-04-2010, 09:14 PM   #24
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I met my wife when she was working on her masters degree and I was completing my bachelors. For seven and a half years, my wife made double my salary AND was my boss.

Now, she works part time for an hourly wage, and I am the primary breadwinner.

Neither was ever a problem for either one of us.

Of course we are in the field of education where everyone has pretty low status anyway.

(I'm a teacher, she was a principal. Now she works at a daycare center part of the day and is home with our son the rest).
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Old 12-04-2010, 09:25 PM   #25
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Old 12-05-2010, 11:52 AM   #26
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The price strong women and sensitive men pay - Relationship Matters

Our cultural messages to men and women are conflicting. Men are encouraged to express more of their feelings, while preserving their strength. Women are encouraged to be self-sufficient, but do so with feminine subservience.

Accomplished women are often judged as hard, tough, and threatening. Men who cry or show vulnerability are viewed as weak and undeserving of leadership roles. Why do we give lip service to wanting each gender to change if we are not willing to enthusiastically endorse their efforts?


One answer is that the idea of sensitive men and independent women is desired by the opposite gender, who is not ready to face the other side of the wished for state. Women who want a softer man in their lives also count on receiving the stoic support men often provide. In the book “Real Men do not eat Quiche”, a woman is quoted telling her friend that she just met a man who is kind, tender, emotional, giving and sweet- too bad he is such a wimp. Conversely, men who desire an equal partner who is self-reliant and successful may also yearn for her to be a submissive, catering female. We must accept that the new desired behaviors may not be compatible with the old ones.

Not only are the role stereotypes limiting both genders’ evolution, they are often associated with pain. As some men intellectually support the equality of women and wish to share life with a working equal, they may also feel threatened by the presence of female co-workers or supervisors. Women who are employed in fields requiring physical strength and stamina such as firefighting, police work or construction still report being the brunt of scorn, jokes and derogatory comments. Women also express disrespect for men who are softer by mocking their lack of assertiveness, action and aggression.

Another price that competent women pay is that they evoke fear in some insecure men. These males misinterpret strength for harshness. A capable, assertive, successful woman who speaks her mind is assumed to be hard and controlling. She is feared and avoided by weak men who expect her to be critical and overpowering. Very often the assigned negative attributes bear no resemblance to the nature of the strong woman. She may actually be kind, supportive and loving as well as independent and successful. Some of these threatened males may have had a strong, harsh controlling mother, sister or former spouse and are thus programmed to expect competent women to be emotionally dangerous.

Conversely, men who are gentle, agreeable, sensitive and caring may be treated as ineffectual by women who fail to appreciate how emotionally evolved these men are. Often these men are very able to get their ideas across and are effective in their lives without needing to be aggressive, hard, loud or angry. Women who disparage the public softer side of men still desire tenderness in their loving relationship with them. The need for aggressive men may stem from women’s need for protection and safety, which they erroneously believe may be lacking in the gentler male.

As a society we need to foster and value competency and gentleness in both men and women without attributing negative personality traits as an inevitable accompaniment to these traits.

Being a strong individual means that one is a capable, healthy person who has the inner resources to handle him/herself well under most life circumstances. Being a gentle individual means that kindness, consideration and caring for others permeates one’s approach to life. Strength does not equal aggression, nor does sensitivity mean ineptness. Strength and sensitivity work beautifully together.

• If we are to encourage people to modify their behavior, we need to back it up with support and delight rather than scorn and shame.

• Before you decide that a strong woman is harsh or that a gentle man is ineffective, get to know them.

• If you are a capable, effective female, be aware that some males may view you as hard. They may equate competency with lack of tenderness. Allow others to see your fair, kind and considerate side as it compliments your potency.

• If you are a sensitive male, pride yourself on your being and highlight to your partner the many benefits in life and love that your style brings.

• If you are a person who is prone to judge people, ask yourself what motivates your action and how you can become more accepting of yourself and others. Attempt to strengthen both your competence and kindness.
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Old 12-05-2010, 04:19 PM   #27
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I've also seen a different side of it a number of times where a girlfriend of mine was dating somebody who was not a professional - he was hard working, but blue-collar job like construction or some sort of factory work, etc. And I can think of two examples where the men actually broke up with the women because they said that they felt uncomfortable at these events, that they were boring for them, they had nothing to talk to these people about and that one or two nights a week accompanying their spouse to such networking was making them resentful of taking up time they could be doing things that were actually enjoyable with them.
I'm not sure gender is really the primary issue with this kind of thing. Are there that many male corporate lawyers whose SOs/wives are retail clerks, waitresses etc., yet always accompany them to "networking" events anyway? Twice-a-week mandatory schmoozing with your partner's coworkers for his/her benefit is a LOT by the standards of most other careers. Not just blue-collar ones, either; I guarantee you most of my colleagues would put their foot down at being expected to do that.
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Old 12-05-2010, 04:50 PM   #28
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Old 12-05-2010, 05:43 PM   #29
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I'm not sure gender is really the primary issue with this kind of thing. Are there that many male corporate lawyers whose SOs/wives are retail clerks, waitresses etc., yet always accompany them to "networking" events anyway? Twice-a-week mandatory schmoozing with your partner's coworkers for his/her benefit is a LOT by the standards of most other careers. Not just blue-collar ones, either; I guarantee you most of my colleagues would put their foot down at being expected to do that.
Well, yeah. I have quite a few lawyer acquaintances, and while most of them that are in relationships are dating other lawyers (probably because they work long hours and don't get too many opportunities to meet other people) when they meet up they don't all just discuss law related topics, or if they do, it is not the only topic of conversation.

When I meet up with my accountant buddies the last thing we talk about is balance sheets, or, I dunno, recent developments in insolvency law. Not just because it would bore their girlfriends if they happen to be present, but largely because it would be so incredibly boring and uncool full stop.
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