"Just whose moral guidance do you prefer - that of the Pope, or Stephen Fry?" - U2 Feedback

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Old 09-21-2010, 05:10 PM   #1
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"Just whose moral guidance do you prefer - that of the Pope, or Stephen Fry?"

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It's usually gratifying to see Stephen Fry take a public stance on anything, because then that serves as a pointer to where I should stand: in the opposite corner. In that regard, he is like Bono, or Bob Geldof, or Richard Gere, or Emma Thompson, or Sean Penn, or Susan Sarandon, et alia.

These people seem to move in the upper reaches of the atmosphere, somewhere between the ozone layer (yes, what happened to the scare over that?) and the ionosphere: what we might call the methanosphere, where their alimentary gases form a permanent and impermeable layer of self-regarding sanctimony.

Stephen Fry is one of the 50 well-known people in British life who signed a letter to 'The Guardian' denouncing the state visit of the Pope to Britain: though the regard these secularists have for Catholic feelings was made evident in how they referred to him: as "Pope Ratzinger".
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It's the done thing these days to declare that the Catholic Church is "responsible for. . . the spread of AIDS". But I could equally declare that the legislators who removed the legal ban on sexual relations between men in the USA brought about 400,000 deaths by AIDS.

You might not like it, but that is the indisputable truth: after liberalisation, homosexual men began to behave largely as conservative opponents of that liberalisation had warned they would, to much liberal derision (mine included). As it turned out, the consequences were far worse than predicted.

Of course, no letter-writer to 'The Guardian' would ever dream of declaring what was actually true -- that sexual liberalisation helped bring about a human catastrophe. Why? Because liberal laws on sexuality are deemed to be 'good' laws, no matter their consequences, whereas Catholic laws on human sexuality are necessarily 'bad' laws, even if their consequences are largely identical.
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As it happens, the Pope said many extraordinarily wise and relevant things during his British visit, and the most potent concerned the sort of intolerant secularism that, combined with obsessive consumerism, is creating an entirely new moral order across the Western world. This is the ethos in which ubiquitous celebrities-of-the-hour could easily become the moral arbiters for developing teenage minds.

Since dogmatic secularists have no agreed moral order, then in its absence, someone is going to have to supply what all humans want -- namely, a compass. And whose moral guidance would you prefer for any society? That of Pope Benedict? Or of Stephen Fry?
Kevin Myers: Just whose moral guidance would you prefer? That of the Pope, or Stephen Fry? - Kevin Myers, Columnists - Independent.ie
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Old 09-21-2010, 05:20 PM   #2
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You might not like it, but that is the indisputable truth: after liberalisation, homosexual men began to behave largely as conservative opponents of that liberalisation had warned they would, to much liberal derision (mine included). As it turned out, the consequences were far worse than predicted.

Of course, no letter-writer to 'The Guardian' would ever dream of declaring what was actually true -- that sexual liberalisation helped bring about a human catastrophe. Why? Because liberal laws on sexuality are deemed to be 'good' laws, no matter their consequences, whereas Catholic laws on human sexuality are necessarily 'bad' laws, even if their consequences are largely identical.
I certainly don't prefer Kevin Myers', that's for sure, as he seems to have his blinders on thinking that all heterosexuals are chaste and pure, while all homosexuals are diseased whores.

But that seems to be the false dichotomy we're living in these days: a choice between the rabid anti-religious sentiment of the Left and the mindless emotional hysterics of the Right. Really, I don't need or want anything from Fry, Myers or the Pope, and they all can just shut up, thank you very much.

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Since dogmatic secularists have no agreed moral order, then in its absence, someone is going to have to supply what all humans want -- namely, a compass. And whose moral guidance would you prefer for any society? That of Pope Benedict? Or of Stephen Fry?
Classical Western philosophy more than had its place in this before the New Left chucked it for all that postmodern nonsense we've been plagued with since. I still cast my vote for Western philosophy.
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Old 09-21-2010, 05:30 PM   #3
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Depends on which Pope u mean - I´m currently reading a book about John XXIII and he was awesome!
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Old 09-21-2010, 05:36 PM   #4
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But that seems to be the false dichotomy we're living in these days: a choice between the rabid anti-religious sentiment of the Left and the mindless emotional hysterics of the Right.
It's rather lazy writing...
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Old 09-21-2010, 05:40 PM   #5
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Kevin Myers is basically the closest thing to an Irish shock-jock. It's basically a case of 'how far to the right can I lean in a mainstream daily newspaper and get away with it?'

There are some good points made in the article above but its hidden beneath the 'look at me, mummy, I can be nasty about the gays and blacks in print and get away with it, nyah nyah nyah' stuff.
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Old 09-21-2010, 09:19 PM   #6
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Press>>>Play



Trust yourself,
Trust yourself to do the things that only you know best
Trust yourself
Trust yourself to do what's right and not be second-guessed
Don't trust me to show you beauty
When beauty may only turn to rust
If you need somebody you can trust, trust yourself.

Trust yourself
Trust yourself to know the way that will prove true in the end
Trust yourself
Trust yourself to find the path where there is no if and when
Don't trust me to show you the truth
When the truth may only be ashes and dust
If you want somebody you can trust, trust yourself.

Well, you're on your own, you always were
In a land of wolves and thieves
Don't put your hope in ungodly man
Or be a slave to what somebody else believes.

Trust yourself
And you won't be disappointed when vain people let you down
Trust yourself
And look not for answers where no answers can be found
Don't trust me to show you love
When my love may be only lust
If you want somebody you can trust, trust yourself.

You, you got to trust yourself ....


~Dylan
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Old 09-21-2010, 11:17 PM   #7
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And you won't be disappointed when vain people let you down
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Old 09-21-2010, 11:46 PM   #8
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Classical Western philosophy more than had its place in this before the New Left chucked it for all that postmodern nonsense we've been plagued with since. I still cast my vote for Western philosophy.
A great post. It's great to know there are others out there.
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