Joseph Lowery's Racist Prayer - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 01-21-2009, 10:53 PM   #16
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,492
Local Time: 11:29 PM
i've thought inviting Warren was a mistake from the beginning, and he lived up to why i thought it was a mistake. it's less that my belief system -- or lack of a belief system -- was threatened or offended, and more that i felt his direct prayer to Jesus was offensive to a multicultural society.
__________________

__________________
Irvine511 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2009, 10:56 PM   #17
ONE
love, blood, life
 
indra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 12,689
Local Time: 12:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
but, were it up to me, i'd have no prayer at all.
My preference also.

And watching at home on the tv I was able to go off and do other stuff during the religious stuff, so that worked out well.

Actually the only part of either Lowery's or whats his name's bits that actually registered was what the iron horse noted (incorrectly, I might add -- it's not "when black will not be asked to give back" it's "when black will not be asked to get in back". Makes a difference). Unlike the iron horse however, I laughed and thought, "damn! That's pretty accurate!"
__________________

__________________
indra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2009, 11:07 PM   #18
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 30,343
Local Time: 11:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jphelmet View Post
that's fair.

i just find it odd that they asked a very conservative, evangelical Christian, and then people are complaining he invokes the name of Jesus.

you can pray to Zeus, mother earth, Buddha or whoever and it won't offend me one bit. i really don't understand why people are so sensitive to others exclusive claims. i understand that other people hold beliefs very dearly that are in direct conflict with mine, and exclude me based on my beliefs. i would find it far more offensive that anyone would change a prayer, so that is not authentic to their beliefs. i am perfectly secure in what i believe, and nothing you could pray would change that or offend me.
There's a pretty good amount of disrespect for non-Christian beliefs in America, especially a lack of religious belief. I think a prayer in a government ceremony perpetuates the myth that Christianity is the religious belief of America, when it's not.
__________________
phillyfan26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2009, 11:11 PM   #19
She's the One
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,335
Local Time: 08:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post

and good for Obama for including non-believers.
I thanked him out loud for that.
__________________
martha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2009, 11:03 AM   #20
Refugee
 
jphelmet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: cumming, ga usa
Posts: 1,387
Local Time: 11:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
more that i felt his direct prayer to Jesus was offensive to a multicultural society.
why is that offensive? really trying to understand, not meant to be antagonistic. I just don't understand why that offends. If you don't believe Jesus is any more than some poor carpenter that lived a long time ago, who cares? Why would you not just shrug it off. i would think, that it just seems ridiculous to you, and you wouldn't care. isn't that prayer supposed to be for the president and his presidency? doesn't it makes sense to have a christian prayer for a president professing to be a Christian? didn't obama have the choice on who would say the prayer? i would expect if we elect a Buddhist to be president, they would want a prayer that invokes the name of Buddha. would that be offensive to you? it wouldn't to me, again it wouldn't effect me one bit.

i just don't get why people get so worked up, how did it effect your day, or life? how did it offend you?
__________________
jphelmet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2009, 11:06 AM   #21
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 24,984
Local Time: 11:29 PM
Rick Warren won't be running the country, President Obama will. I'm not worried.
__________________
MrsSpringsteen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2009, 11:11 AM   #22
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,492
Local Time: 11:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jphelmet View Post
why is that offensive? really trying to understand, not meant to be antagonistic. I just don't understand why that offends. If you don't believe Jesus is any more than some poor carpenter that lived a long time ago, who cares? Why would you not just shrug it off. i would think, that it just seems ridiculous to you, and you wouldn't care. isn't that prayer supposed to be for the president and his presidency? doesn't it makes sense to have a christian prayer for a president professing to be a Christian? didn't obama have the choice on who would say the prayer? i would expect if we elect a Buddhist to be president, they would want a prayer that invokes the name of Buddha. would that be offensive to you? it wouldn't to me, again it wouldn't effect me one bit.

i just don't get why people get so worked up, how did it effect your day, or life? how did it offend you?

firstly, this was my reaction on a persona level. it doesn't offend me, as i've said. i'm pretty agnostic on the Jesus thing. i think you can respect his teachings and not believe in miracles, and that's pretty much where i stand. i find lots of wisdom in Buddhism as well.

but the reason why it offends me on a broader, cultural level is because i know people who aren't christian and who are reminded of this every day. it offends me because they are participants in this society and full, equal citizens, and to hear the government endorse a specific religion is a way to remind them and reinforce that they're different.

but above all, it's simply rude, because it intentionally leaves people out. you remember those rules from kindergarten? it's bad manners to be exclusionary.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2009, 11:13 AM   #23
She's the One
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,335
Local Time: 08:29 PM
Why do Christians always invoke Buddha when they want to make a point about how open and tolerant they are?
__________________
martha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2009, 11:23 AM   #24
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 24,984
Local Time: 11:29 PM
Well as a Christian I was happy to see the President's specific mention of non-believers-and I'm fully aware that we are all full and equal citizens. I see him continuing in that vein in his Presidency, so unless he indicates otherwise I'm not worried. I think 4 years (or more) will ultimately be more important than one day. We will see the difference between him and Bush in terms of the role of religion.
__________________
MrsSpringsteen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2009, 11:26 AM   #25
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 05:29 AM
I was startled when I watched it to see that Warren wasn't even trying to be nondenominational with his invocation, because that's the expected standard for public events. If you're going to have a prayer on such an occasion, it ain't that hard to compose a nice nondenominational one; I've heard dozens of them over the years at interfaith charity and citizen action events. The prayer is supposed to be for everyone in attendance, not just the President.
__________________
yolland [at] interference.com


μελετώ αποτυγχάνειν. -- Διογένης της Σινώπης
yolland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2009, 11:27 AM   #26
Refugee
 
jphelmet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: cumming, ga usa
Posts: 1,387
Local Time: 11:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
firstly, this was my reaction on a persona level. it doesn't offend me, as i've said. i'm pretty agnostic on the Jesus thing. i think you can respect his teachings and not believe in miracles, and that's pretty much where i stand. i find lots of wisdom in Buddhism as well.

but the reason why it offends me on a broader, cultural level is because i know people who aren't christian and who are reminded of this every day. it offends me because they are participants in this society and full, equal citizens, and to hear the government endorse a specific religion is a way to remind them and reinforce that they're different.

but above all, it's simply rude, because it intentionally leaves people out. you remember those rules from kindergarten? it's bad manners to be exclusionary.
fair enough. thank you for your answer.

so it would offend you, for the same reasons, if the prayer was done in the name of allah, budda, or whoever?
__________________
jphelmet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2009, 11:33 AM   #27
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 24,984
Local Time: 11:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yolland View Post
I was startled when I watched it to see that Warren wasn't even trying to be nondenominational with his invocation, because that's the expected standard for public events. If you're going to have a prayer on such an occasion, it ain't that hard to compose a nice nondenominational one; I've heard dozens of them over the years at interfaith charity and citizen action events. The prayer is supposed to be for everyone in attendance, not just the President.

I think Rick Warren does whatever he wants to do regardless of expected standards. Part of the error in choosing him, perhaps.

Inaugural Prayers Through History -- The Ultimate Archive - Steven Waldman
__________________
MrsSpringsteen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2009, 11:33 AM   #28
Refugee
 
jphelmet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: cumming, ga usa
Posts: 1,387
Local Time: 11:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by martha View Post
Why do Christians always invoke Buddha when they want to make a point about how open and tolerant they are?
plug into my example whatever other religious belief you want. sorry for using buddha.

you know thats what it the christian manual, on how to look tolerant- right? i guess i'll have to stop using that example- since christians 'always' use it now.

so if i said Allah, that would make my "fake" tolerance, look more realistic? i need to right this down, for future reference.
__________________
jphelmet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2009, 11:37 AM   #29
ONE
love, blood, life
 
U2isthebest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Vision over visibility....
Posts: 12,332
Local Time: 12:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsSpringsteen View Post
I think Rick Warren does whatever he wants to do regardless of expected standards. Part of the error in choosing him, perhaps.

Inaugural Prayers Through History -- The Ultimate Archive - Steven Waldman
Man, Billy Graham has prayed at a lot of inaugurations. That's not surprising as he's been a spiritual adviser to every president dating back to Truman, I believe. Ironically enough, he's been a registered Democrat his entire life. I wonder how the Christian Right feels about that. I suppose John Hagee and Rod Parsley would love to tell him he's going to Hell for that most offensive sin.
__________________
U2isthebest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2009, 12:07 PM   #30
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,492
Local Time: 11:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jphelmet View Post
so it would offend you, for the same reasons, if the prayer was done in the name of allah, budda, or whoever?


yes.
__________________

__________________
Irvine511 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com