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Old 10-11-2008, 12:28 PM   #1
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Jorg Haider dead in car crash at 58

Joerg Haider, Austria's far-right leader, dies in car crash - Times Online
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Old 10-11-2008, 12:35 PM   #2
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How interesting. I was just talking about Austria and the far-right yesterday with someone.

On a side note, I see some idiot American commented and is regurgitating that "liberal fascism" nonsense that Jonah Goldberg fabricated. Really, that Cypriot commenter is right, and I really do question the intelligence of the average American too these days.
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Old 10-11-2008, 02:17 PM   #3
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I'm from Austria, many people hated him here and his position and politics, but he was very popular in his home province of Carinthia. Personally, I couldn't stand him and was against his politics, even though (or because) my father knew him quite well on a personal level and always voted for him. Some years ago he was sabotaging his own party, left the political stage, but only for a short time, and had an enormous comeback with the next elections in 2000. There was a lot of controversy surrounding this success, so he stepped back and let other people lead the party into a coalition that became the new Austrian government.

We just had elections some weeks ago and the far right parties were the clear winners, so it looked like Haider would finally get into federal politics again. Though I never agreed with his political positions I still say it's tragic he died that way, condolences to the family.
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Old 10-11-2008, 08:18 PM   #4
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Personally, I couldn't stand him and was against his politics, even though (or because) my father knew him quite well on a personal level and always voted for him. .

Is it true that Haider was gay? This was widely alleged in German and Austrian newspaper articles a few years back.
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Old 10-11-2008, 08:22 PM   #5
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How interesting. I was just talking about Austria and the far-right yesterday with someone.
I saw, prominently displayed in billboards, including one near the main train station, in Vienna a few years ago, the political slogan - I assume it was for Haider's party - "Wien darf nicht Istanbul werden" ("Vienna must not be allowed to become like Istanbul").

It occured to me, although there is plenty of underhand racism in the UK and Ireland, generally one does not see it as direct, and officially sanctioned, as that.
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Old 10-11-2008, 09:33 PM   #6
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Oh good lord.

If I do get to Vienna next summer, how bad is it going to be?
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Old 10-11-2008, 09:34 PM   #7
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You couldn't imagine. The situation is dire. I think.

I don't pity his death.
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Old 10-11-2008, 09:41 PM   #8
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You couldn't imagine. The situation is dire. I think.
Why is the situation dire? Austria is surely no more, or less, racist, than it has ever been. A certain % of the population like to flirt with racism, but the majority do not - same as any country, really - it's just, based on personal observation, right-leaning political parties seem to be much more unapologetic about racism there than in other European countries.

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I don't pity his death.
As Last Unicorn says, it's unfortunate for the family, but I don't pity his death either. I think he was a scumbag in a nice suit. And a scumbag in a nice suit, is still a scumbag.
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Old 10-11-2008, 09:43 PM   #9
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From what I've read in the paper today, it's not a loss for humanity, just his family.
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Old 10-11-2008, 10:09 PM   #10
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Why is the situation dire? Austria is surely no more, or less, racist, than it has ever been. A certain % of the population like to flirt with racism, but the majority do not - same as any country, really - it's just, based on personal observation, right-leaning political parties seem to be much more unapologetic about racism there than in other European countries.
Was sarcasm. Though I think I misread martha's post being sarcastic about the billboard when in fact it was rather asking for how bad racism is in Austria?

Well, anyways, I don't think that racism in Austria is worse than in other countries.
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Old 10-11-2008, 10:27 PM   #11
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it was rather asking for how bad racism is in Austria?

It was.
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Old 10-11-2008, 10:28 PM   #12
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Utopia is only a few billion deaths away.
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Old 10-12-2008, 12:08 AM   #13
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It was.
OK, then my post didn't make sense.

Well, anyways. You shouldn't be concerned going to Vienna anytime. It's definitely not an especially racist place. Most voters of the right wing party in European countries don't do so because they particularly agree with that party, but because they are thinking this way they are "protesting" the main parties and force them to do better in the next four years. Needless to say that it doesn't help and is a pretty pathetic way of trying to put pressure on the main parties. The right-wing parties of course feel confirmed and their tone gets even uglier.
If you went to Vienna next summer, or any other place in Europe, you sure will not recognise any blatant racism. So far any demonstration by the right is greatly outnumbered by a counter-demonstration of the left.
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Old 10-12-2008, 12:55 AM   #14
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:relief:

Thanks. I'm hoping to get there, but it's contingent on a few things out of my direct control.
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Old 10-12-2008, 01:50 AM   #15
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Utopia is only a few billion deaths away.
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