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Old 10-12-2008, 04:07 PM   #31
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If all this doesn´t put you off enough to visit beautiful Vienna, you are indeed very welcome and we could have a beer at a pub together like I did with Sula!

We have some of those same problems here in the States.

And yes, we will have a beer. Well, I'll have half a beer anyway.
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Old 10-13-2008, 02:35 AM   #32
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Are you sure? In the rest of the world, how often does an immigrant get killed -by gluing his mouth and nose so he can´t breathe- by aliens´ police in a plane that sends him back to Africa? With NO political reaction - the police officers are NOT tried, the interior minster does not resign?

Austria has been classified as a leader in racism and xenophobia by human rights organizations.

As a fellow Austrian, with all respect, I think your opinion is typical Austrian understatement.
Incidents like this happen everywhere, they are tragic nonetheless and every single one is one too many. Not resigning when things go wrong is something that is surely typical for Austrian politicians, though. I think it's just in recent years that politicians started to realize that. Problems with immigrants and the police are not just an Austrian phenomenon.

Of course I have to say I'm concerned about the far right gaining so many votes, mainly because of the signal it's sending to other countries. I don't feel that living here has become more difficult or dangerous and I certainly don't feel any open racism. I still consider Vienna to be a very open and tolerant city.
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Old 10-13-2008, 06:28 AM   #33
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Incidents like this happen everywhere, they are tragic nonetheless and every single one is one too many. Not resigning when things go wrong is something that is surely typical for Austrian politicians, though. I think it's just in recent years that politicians started to realize that. Problems with immigrants and the police are not just an Austrian phenomenon.

Of course I have to say I'm concerned about the far right gaining so many votes, mainly because of the signal it's sending to other countries. I don't feel that living here has become more difficult or dangerous and I certainly don't feel any open racism. I still consider Vienna to be a very open and tolerant city.
Basically I agree w you, it´s just that I don´t think they were "incidents". It´s not an "incident" to beat someone to death, it happened once a year someone was killed, and there is no excuse for this.

I can only applaud the recent police work for fairness and sesibility to prevent such "incidents" in the future: Fair & Sensibel (Polizei und AfrikanerInnen)
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Old 10-15-2008, 04:00 PM   #34
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Ok, he was going way too fast and now it turns out he even had a lot of alcohol in his blood: 1.8 promille.
Arrogance kills.
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Old 10-15-2008, 04:59 PM   #35
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An asshole, driving like an asshole.
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Old 10-23-2008, 07:38 PM   #36
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Haider's deputy reveals gay affair - Europe, World - The Independent


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Conservative Austria was in a state of shock today after the male successor to Jörg Haider admitted to having a longstanding “special relationship” with the far right leader who died dramatically in a high speed car crash earlier this month.


Stefan Petzner – the 27-year-old who recently replaced Haider as leader of the right wing Alliance for the Future of Austria and has often appeared in tears on television since his death - effectively outed himself as the deceased’s gay lover while being interviewed on an Austrian radio breakfast show.
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Old 10-23-2008, 07:49 PM   #37
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I want to laugh so bad right now.
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Old 10-23-2008, 08:06 PM   #38
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I want to laugh so bad right now.
Why?
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Old 10-23-2008, 08:12 PM   #39
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It's just that the most intense, conservative, mean assholes are usually closet-cases. And it's sad, because they hate themselves, so they have to hate others. And then their followers find that the people they admired are also people they have to hate now.

It's just so ironic. I want to laugh, but it's really just pathetic.
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Old 10-23-2008, 08:19 PM   #40
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It's just that the most intense, conservative, mean assholes are usually closet-cases. And it's sad, because they hate themselves, so they have to hate others. And then their followers find that the people they admired are also people they have to hate now.

It's just so ironic. I want to laugh, but it's really just pathetic.
Your interpretation is most likely incorrect - Haider wasn't particularly closeted, and his homosexuality (or bisexuality) was well known in Austrian political and media circles.

Indeed, if you look carefully, I alluded to these rumours myself, earlier in the thread, before it was publicly confirmed.

You are essentially making the mistake of assuming that US morality applies to other regions in the world.

I suspect that most of the people who voted for Haider's party don't actually care much about this, as he never put himself forward as homophobic in the first place.

But overall, much as I repudiate Haider's political philosophy, it doesn't say much for you that you think the tragic death of someone, who left behind a family, as a fit matter to have a big laugh and joke about.
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Old 10-23-2008, 08:40 PM   #41
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But overall, much as I repudiate Haider's political philosophy, it doesn't say much for you that you think the tragic death of someone, who left behind a family, as a fit matter to have a big laugh and joke about.

That probably came across a bit sharp. I don't mean to attack Martha, I can understand why left leaning Americans would think as she does. There's a debate to be had about why people like Haider rise to positions of power in some of 'old Europe', laughing about peoples' deaths is not the way to do it, IMO.
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Old 10-23-2008, 08:43 PM   #42
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She wasn't laughing about his death.

I'm not even sure how any reasonable person could conclude otherwise if they read the posts.
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Old 10-23-2008, 09:40 PM   #43
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Your interpretation is most likely incorrect - Haider wasn't particularly closeted, and his homosexuality (or bisexuality) was well known in Austrian political and media circles.

Indeed, if you look carefully, I alluded to these rumours myself, earlier in the thread, before it was publicly confirmed.

You are essentially making the mistake of assuming that US morality applies to other regions in the world.

I suspect that most of the people who voted for Haider's party don't actually care much about this, as he never put himself forward as homophobic in the first place.
Then why did the party sack Petzner immediately after he publicly disclosed his "special relationship" with Haider?
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Old 10-23-2008, 09:44 PM   #44
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any reasonable person
Sticking point. He isn't reasonable when it comes to me.
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Old 10-23-2008, 09:45 PM   #45
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laughing about peoples' deaths is not the way to do it, IMO.
Could you please quote me where I said I was laughing?
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