Jorg Haider dead in car crash at 58

[martha]

If all this doesn´t put you off enough to visit beautiful Vienna, you are indeed very welcome and we could have a beer at a pub together like I did with Sula!

We have some of those same problems here in the States.

And yes, we will have a beer. Well, I'll have half a beer anyway.

 

[last unicorn]

Are you sure? In the rest of the world, how often does an immigrant get killed -by gluing his mouth and nose so he can´t breathe- by aliens´ police in a plane that sends him back to Africa? With NO political reaction - the police officers are NOT tried, the interior minster does not resign?

Austria has been classified as a leader in racism and xenophobia by human rights organizations.

As a fellow Austrian, with all respect, I think your opinion is typical Austrian understatement.

Incidents like this happen everywhere, they are tragic nonetheless and every single one is one too many. Not resigning when things go wrong is something that is surely typical for Austrian politicians, though. I think it's just in recent years that politicians started to realize that. Problems with immigrants and the police are not just an Austrian phenomenon.

Of course I have to say I'm concerned about the far right gaining so many votes, mainly because of the signal it's sending to other countries. I don't feel that living here has become more difficult or dangerous and I certainly don't feel any open racism. I still consider Vienna to be a very open and tolerant city.

 

[hiphop]

Incidents like this happen everywhere, they are tragic nonetheless and every single one is one too many. Not resigning when things go wrong is something that is surely typical for Austrian politicians, though. I think it's just in recent years that politicians started to realize that. Problems with immigrants and the police are not just an Austrian phenomenon.

Of course I have to say I'm concerned about the far right gaining so many votes, mainly because of the signal it's sending to other countries. I don't feel that living here has become more difficult or dangerous and I certainly don't feel any open racism. I still consider Vienna to be a very open and tolerant city.

Basically I agree w you, it´s just that I don´t think they were "incidents". It´s not an "incident" to beat someone to death, it happened once a year someone was killed, and there is no excuse for this.

I can only applaud the recent police work for fairness and sesibility to prevent such "incidents" in the future: Fair & Sensibel (Polizei und AfrikanerInnen)

 

[Vincent Vega]

Ok, he was going way too fast and now it turns out he even had a lot of alcohol in his blood: 1.8 promille.
Arrogance kills.

 

[martha]

An asshole, driving like an asshole.

 

[financeguy]

Haider's deputy reveals gay affair - Europe, World - The Independent

Conservative Austria was in a state of shock today after the male successor to Jörg Haider admitted to having a longstanding “special relationship” with the far right leader who died dramatically in a high speed car crash earlier this month.


Stefan Petzner – the 27-year-old who recently replaced Haider as leader of the right wing Alliance for the Future of Austria and has often appeared in tears on television since his death - effectively outed himself as the deceased’s gay lover while being interviewed on an Austrian radio breakfast show.

 

[martha]

I want to laugh so bad right now.

 

[financeguy]

I want to laugh so bad right now.

Why?

 

[martha]

It's just that the most intense, conservative, mean assholes are usually closet-cases. And it's sad, because they hate themselves, so they have to hate others. And then their followers find that the people they admired are also people they have to hate now.

It's just so ironic. I want to laugh, but it's really just pathetic.

 

[financeguy]

It's just that the most intense, conservative, mean assholes are usually closet-cases. And it's sad, because they hate themselves, so they have to hate others. And then their followers find that the people they admired are also people they have to hate now.

It's just so ironic. I want to laugh, but it's really just pathetic.

Your interpretation is most likely incorrect - Haider wasn't particularly closeted, and his homosexuality (or bisexuality) was well known in Austrian political and media circles.

Indeed, if you look carefully, I alluded to these rumours myself, earlier in the thread, before it was publicly confirmed.

You are essentially making the mistake of assuming that US morality applies to other regions in the world.

I suspect that most of the people who voted for Haider's party don't actually care much about this, as he never put himself forward as homophobic in the first place.

But overall, much as I repudiate Haider's political philosophy, it doesn't say much for you that you think the tragic death of someone, who left behind a family, as a fit matter to have a big laugh and joke about.

 

[financeguy]

But overall, much as I repudiate Haider's political philosophy, it doesn't say much for you that you think the tragic death of someone, who left behind a family, as a fit matter to have a big laugh and joke about.

That probably came across a bit sharp. I don't mean to attack Martha, I can understand why left leaning Americans would think as she does. There's a debate to be had about why people like Haider rise to positions of power in some of 'old Europe', laughing about peoples' deaths is not the way to do it, IMO.

 

[anitram]

She wasn't laughing about his death.

I'm not even sure how any reasonable person could conclude otherwise if they read the posts.

 

[Axver]

Your interpretation is most likely incorrect - Haider wasn't particularly closeted, and his homosexuality (or bisexuality) was well known in Austrian political and media circles.

Indeed, if you look carefully, I alluded to these rumours myself, earlier in the thread, before it was publicly confirmed.

You are essentially making the mistake of assuming that US morality applies to other regions in the world.

I suspect that most of the people who voted for Haider's party don't actually care much about this, as he never put himself forward as homophobic in the first place.

Then why did the party sack Petzner immediately after he publicly disclosed his "special relationship" with Haider?

 

[martha]

any reasonable person

Sticking point. He isn't reasonable when it comes to me.

 

[martha]

laughing about peoples' deaths is not the way to do it, IMO.

Could you please quote me where I said I was laughing?

 

[martha]

Your interpretation is most likely incorrect - Haider wasn't particularly closeted, and his homosexuality (or bisexuality) was well known in Austrian political and media circles.

I didn't know that. I don't follow Austrian politics all that carefully.

 

[Vincent Vega]

Your interpretation is most likely incorrect - Haider wasn't particularly closeted, and his homosexuality (or bisexuality) was well known in Austrian political and media circles.

Indeed, if you look carefully, I alluded to these rumours myself, earlier in the thread, before it was publicly confirmed.

You are essentially making the mistake of assuming that US morality applies to other regions in the world.

I suspect that most of the people who voted for Haider's party don't actually care much about this, as he never put himself forward as homophobic in the first place.

But overall, much as I repudiate Haider's political philosophy, it doesn't say much for you that you think the tragic death of someone, who left behind a family, as a fit matter to have a big laugh and joke about.

German and Austrian right extremists and ultra-conservatives are not that different when it comes to homosexuality. I don't think you would find a openly gay person in the top ranks of any of the neo-Nazi parties, in neither European country, since they still despise everything that is not white, christian and hetero. Only exception is when they try to start alliances with islamic fundamentalists in their hatred against Jews.

Austrians are more qualified on that I guess, but, like this article refers to conservative Austrians being shocked, I haven't heard that word spread widely before about him being gay. German yellow-press Bild is to my knowledge the first that came up with that rumor showing him speaking to a guy in a bar before his fatal car ride.

 

[martha]

Your interpretation is most likely incorrect - Haider wasn't particularly closeted, and his homosexuality (or bisexuality) was well known in Austrian political and media circles.

However the far right leader, who fathered two children with his wife Claudia, refused to discuss them, fearing that they would alienate thousands of his ultra conservative followers.

Your own article doesn't seem to back you up very well.

 

[financeguy]

If you re-read the thread carefully, you will find that on page one, I speculated that Haider was gay. You will note that this was before the recent confirmation that he was, indeed, of that leaning.

Now, unless I am an unusually skilled clairvoyant, I do not think that it is particularly remarkable to deduce that it was fairly well known - before his death - that within certain media and political circles, it was no big secret - particularly as I have no access to said Austrian political and media circles, merely having, as any observer has, access to what I believe is known as a google internet device.

In point of fact, upon hearing of Jorg Haider's death, I googed his name, and on the first few pages there were links to German and Austrian media articles talking about his sexuality.

 

[A_Wanderer]

Not to mention the history of tolerated homosexuality in far right movements.

 

[financeguy]

Not to mention the history of tolerated homosexuality in far right movements.

Can't be true, queers are all lovable lefties, right?

 

[last unicorn]

Rumors about Haider being gay have been around for a long time.

The "Special Relationship" that Petzner mentioned could mean anything. Of course there was a lot of speculation immediately after he said that in an interview.

The party was to elect Petzner as their new leader, but didn't, most people consider this to be the direct reaction to Petzner's public statements after Haider's death.

Some say the party won't be able to make it without Haider, because he was the charismatic leader and it was basically a one man show. I agree to a certain extent, I don't think they'll ever come close to their recent success without Haider as their leader.

Absurdity has just started to continue here because Haider still hasn't been buried (or cremated), since some people in the party and most of all his wife want to have the circumstances of his death examined even further. There has been talk about a conspiracy yesterday in the news.