John Allen Muhammad execution set for Nov. 10, should there be a Stay?

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RedRocksU2 said:
Fuck him.

Ask the victim's relatives how they feel about him.
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his blood will never wash away their tears.

he made life a living hell for our community for that whole month. a man was killed at a gas station i frequented. yet, his execution does not make me feel any sort of relief or closure. nobody's death will ever bring me comfort.


there is no justice in vengeance.

if we kill off every psychofuck in this world, how are we going to learn to treat them, learn the causes and prevent them in the future, and progress as a society? or is that not the goal here?
 
Irvine511 said:
with all due respect, justice isn't about making the families of victims feel better, or about allowing them to exact whatever revenge they see fit.
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I disagree, maybe for you, but not for others.

Revenge isn't even part of the process..some think it is and may use it as such, but this is wrong headed thinking.

The correct, righteous use of justice does make some people feel partially compensated for the honor of innocent life taken thus providing closure.

<>
 
diamond said:
Revenge isn't even part of the process..


The correct, righteous use of justice does make some people feel partially compensated
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way to contradict yourself, as per usual.

it doesn't matter how much you beat on the Muslims, the evangelicals are still going to think you and Mittens are totally crazy.
 
2861U2 said:
Prison overcrowding.
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You're going to send someone to an ABSOLUTE sentence, when the system is not an ABSOLUTE, and all you have is prison overcrowding?

How do some of you deal with the glaring contradictions of your moral teachings? Is it just towing the party line or pure bloodlust?
 
i think the death penalty is great. i'm all about getting revenge on those sons of bitches, as long as it's done in a humane, tastful way.
 
The death penalty is the biggest travesty in the justice system today, and one of the worst things about the United States. It's ineffective, costly, inhumane, and has on numerous occasions been used to kill people innocent of the crimes they were charged with.
 
phillyfan26 said:
The death penalty is the biggest travesty in the justice system today, and one of the worst things about the United States. It's ineffective, costly, inhumane, and has on numerous occasions been used to kill people innocent of the crimes they were charged with.
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i wouldn't say it's ineffective. i heard it works like a charm. if only they'd bring back public hangings. to help with the costs, they could sell tickets to the event, maybe have some entertainment afterwards. as long as the evildoers get what's coming.
 
mikal said:
i wouldn't say it's ineffective. i heard it works like a charm. if only they'd bring back public hangings. to help with the costs, they could sell tickets to the event, maybe have some entertainment afterwards. as long as the evildoers get what's coming.
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Your tongue in cheek aside, do you really think it works? Based on what, please? I've been researching in criminology for too many years now, and have never once seen any empirical or otherwise supporting data for the death penalty.
 
unico said:
if we kill off every psychofuck in this world, how are we going to learn to treat them, learn the causes and prevent them in the future, and progress as a society? or is that not the goal here?
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Cure them? There is no way to cure them. Learn to treat them? Has this worked so far all these years? No, it has not.

I know I'm in the minority here and that is fine, but I would gladly be the one that pulls the trigger on these monsters.
 
Jarratt, Virginia (CNN) -- -- Washington-area sniper John Allen Muhammad, 48, was executed Tuesday by lethal injection, a Virginia prisons spokesman said.
 
RedRocksU2 said:
Cure them? There is no way to cure them. Learn to treat them? Has this worked so far all these years? No, it has not.
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There is no way to cure them? How can you be so sure? Are you a doctor? Are you familiar at all with psychosis, or the chemical imbalances that attribute to it? What leads to it, what neurotransmitters are inhibited, or what medications can be used? Hmm...there is absolutely no reasoning or logic behind your "There is no way to treat them." Your response is based on anger, nothing scientific or rational.

Was this guy ever institutionalized? How can you say "has it worked for years" when he was just thrown in jail? Or do you happen to know the results of his psychological evaluation and medication?

His crimes were heinous and horrible. I'm not arguing that. I was in the community affected and I'm not at all downplaying how terrifying it was to be there.

I want to share this with you. Here's an exerpt from his psychological evaluation:

A psychiatric evaluation obtained by his lawyers determined that despite an “ability to sometimes show a superficial
brightness,” Muhammad did not have “a reasonable degree of rational understanding.” The psychiatrist concluded that
he “was not competent to stand trial,” that his “ability to make decisions and understand the proceedings was impaired,”
and that his “judgment and ability to think logically were severely compromised.” Magnetic Resonance Imaging revealed
that John Muhammad’s brain had serious abnormalities, including a shrunken cortex, indicating a loss of brain tissue
likely to have been caused by a severe injury to the head. Another abnormality found in his brain is sometimes associated
with schizophrenia, and two experts retained concluded that Muhammad probably suffered from this serious mental
illness. This opinion was consistent with indications that John Muhammad suffered from delusional and bizarre thinking.
Other testing indicated that he had severe cognitive impairments.
Because John Muhammad refused to be interviewed by the prosecution’s psychiatrist, however, the trial judge ruled that
no expert testimony could be introduced, greatly reducing the defence lawyers” ability to protect Muhammad from the
death penalty. They had built a mitigation case based around the testimony of a mental health expert. Among other
things, according to Muhammad’s appeal lawyers, his relatives and others had provided the expert with “heart-wrenching
stories of the abuse and neglect Muhammad suffered as a child - beatings with hoses and electrical cords, denial of food,
clothing and basic necessities, and suffering on a scale difficult to imagine.” Mental health experts have linked this abuse
with John Muhammad’s brain dysfunction.
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I cannot find any information that he was treated/medicated for any of this. The U.S. just executed a man with severe mental impairment and brain dysfunction who wasn't even fit to stand trial. He wasn't born a monster, Carlos. Nobody is.
 
Tiger Edge said:
make weed legal?
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No. Points for the gigantic leap, though. :up:

Irvine511 said:
what religion are you again?
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And that's relevant because...?

phillyfan26 said:
Did you know it costs the government over $2 million more to have a prisoner executed than to have them serve a life sentence?
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First off, it's not the injection itself that attributes to the extra cost, it's the much more thorough (and deservedly so) legal process.
Second, I can't speak for others, but I'd actually gladly have my taxes slightly raised to help support the DP costs.
Third, whatever the average number is ($2 mil or whatever), that's a tiny fraction compared to what it costs to even build a prison, forget about running it.

BVS said:
How do some of you deal with the glaring contradictions of your moral teachings? Is it just towing the party line or pure bloodlust?
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Excuse me? Is it possibly for you to deliver a post absent of a personal attack, because I rarely see one from you. "Bloodlust?" Not quite, BVS. So get off it. My "moral teachings" seem to suit me and my opinions just fine as far as the concepts of justice and personal responsibility go.

mikal said:
i think the death penalty is great. i'm all about getting revenge on those sons of bitches, as long as it's done in a humane, tastful way.
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Lethal injection isn't humane? What would you prefer? Electric chair? Firing squad? Guillotine?

Angela Harlem said:
Your tongue in cheek aside, do you really think it works? Based on what, please? I've been researching in criminology for too many years now, and have never once seen any empirical or otherwise supporting data for the death penalty.
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I'm a CJ major myself, and while I don't refute this, I've seen little evidence that life without parole does much dettering either. The DP does, though, irrefutably reduce recidivism and overcrowding.

But hey, I know I'm a bad guy for caring more about the victims' families (who overwhelmingly seem to support the DP) than the criminal who did such-and-such to a family or families. In situations of mass killings or sensational crimes with scientific evidence to back it up, the DP simply must be used. I don't buy the whole "He'll suffer more in prison because he'll think about it everyday" nonsense...
 
2861U2 said:
But hey, I know I'm a bad guy for caring more about the victims' families (who overwhelmingly seem to support the DP) than the criminal who did such-and-such to a family or families. In situations of mass killings or sensational crimes with scientific evidence to back it up, the DP simply must be used. I don't buy the whole "He'll suffer more in prison because he'll think about it everyday" nonsense...
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You think we don't care about the families? It happened in my neighborhood ffs. If you don't mind, could you please post the info about victims' families overwhelmingly support the DP?

And I agree the "suffer more in prison" is BS. If people with psychosis are not given the proper counseling and medication, they aren't going to learn a thing.

Why is rehabilitation overlooked in this system? There's plenty of medical research to back it up. We are a society loaded with drugs, and there are plenty of pharmaceuticals who would love to increase their profits, I'm sure. So why not medicate the criminals? I've known plenty of people who have been in and out of prison, and not once have they been prescribed medication. I don't know for sure if that is common or not, but it sure seems like it to me.
 
RedRocksU2 said:
I know I'm in the minority here and that is fine, but I would gladly be the one that pulls the trigger on these monsters.
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I think that's very honest of you.

I'm personally opposed to the DP because I would never be able to pull the trigger myself, and if my moral compass tells me that it's wrong then I think it would be wrong to expect somebody to do it on my behalf.
 
I keep on editing my replies to you Mia. Good points however on your part.
I wonder what would be your solution for these people.
 
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