John Allen Muhammad execution set for Nov. 10, should there be a Stay? - Page 7 - U2 Feedback

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Old 11-11-2009, 01:40 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by mikal View Post
i wouldn't say it's ineffective. i heard it works like a charm. if only they'd bring back public hangings. to help with the costs, they could sell tickets to the event, maybe have some entertainment afterwards. as long as the evildoers get what's coming.
No, it's actually really, really ineffective. It's been researched. Violent crime increases in states in the month following an execution. Every time. Like clockwork. It certainly does not discourage crime, and it can be argued that it encourages it based on the facts.

In Canada, the murder rate has dropped 23% since they got rid of the death penalty.
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Originally Posted by 2861U2 View Post
First off, it's not the injection itself that attributes to the extra cost, it's the much more thorough (and deservedly so) legal process.
Second, I can't speak for others, but I'd actually gladly have my taxes slightly raised to help support the DP costs.
Third, whatever the average number is ($2 mil or whatever), that's a tiny fraction compared to what it costs to even build a prison, forget about running it.
I know it's because of the legal process. Ten years on death row = ten years of appeal after appeal.

That's your opinion. I personally believe that "beyond a reasonable doubt" is much different than "we know 100% for sure" but hey, that's just me (and logic). I personally believe that when 107 prisoners have been exonerated while on death row before they got executed in the past thirty years, that means there's more people we've killed who were innocent. I don't like the idea that we killed a guy for something he didn't do. But that's just me. You're entitled to being comfortable with murdering innocent people with your tax dollars, I suppose.

And no, it's not. Because it's $2.6 million past what it costs to keep that same individual in prison for a life sentence. The cost per individual in a prison is a fraction of what it costs to kill a person. You've got it backwards.

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How the fuck should I know why they kill each other less? I know it'd be simple to proclaim it just guns, but I don't pretend it's that shallow. Again, why is their murder rate so much higher than Japan? I guess people are different.

Primarily I would say people die because of the relationships they choose. Your chances of being killed by a stranger are remarkably slim, so watch out for those you know.
It's a combination of things. That combination does indeed include gun laws and the lack of a death penalty.

And in other countries, race doesn't play nearly as much of a factor in the legal system as it does in the United States. Statistically, the death penalty is a very discriminatory practice. The likelihood of the death penalty being used increases significantly if if the victim is white or the accused is black.

Also, 95% of death row inmates are lower class, which means they almost always have public defenders, which means quite a few of them are getting a shitty defense.
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Old 11-11-2009, 01:41 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by Bluer White View Post
^That^ and economics/poverty.

But the death penalty isn't a deterrent to all this violence, or is it? (I say it's not)

It's a deterrent to repeat offenses by the same person. But I'm more into the eye for an eye thing.


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all the gun data is effectively presented in the gun thread.
300 million legally owned guns and yet we don't have 300 million deaths a year, how can there be so many guns not being used to kill people? Must be something else.
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Old 11-11-2009, 02:08 PM   #93
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I still can't get over being against raising taxes to fund healthcare but OK with raising them to fund executions. Wow.

I'm against the death penalty for a few reasons. I don't believe the government/judicial system should have the power to decide life and death. Also, as pfan said, beyond a reasonable doubt isn't good enough when deciding a person's fate. You have to be 100% certain that you're not putting an innocent person to death.

My feelings on the death penalty have nothing to do with my feelings about the actions of John Allen Muhammed. What he did was heinous. I have far more sympathy for his victims families than him.
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Old 11-11-2009, 02:25 PM   #94
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300 million legally owned guns and yet we don't have 300 million deaths a year, how can there be so many guns not being used to kill people? Must be something else.


you see?
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Old 11-11-2009, 02:48 PM   #95
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guys, i think we should provide him with encouragement and positive reinforcement.

he just needs some re-education so that he can learn that his actions CAN potentially have a negative outcome. based on his previous actions, it's in everyone's best interest that this man gets the help he needs and who knows... maybe within five years he can be an active, positive member of society.

remember, we've got to carry each other and WALK ON.

last unicorn's signature really applies to everything.
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Old 11-11-2009, 02:50 PM   #96
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is there a petition i can sign? perhaps a chainletter email forward that can be sent my way? if not, then let's start one.

one that's based on LOVE and PEACE (or else).

we get to carry each other. ONE.
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Old 11-11-2009, 02:59 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by Zoomerang96 View Post
guys, i think we should provide him with encouragement and positive reinforcement.

he just needs some re-education so that he can learn that his actions CAN potentially have a negative outcome. based on his previous actions, it's in everyone's best interest that this man gets the help he needs and who knows... maybe within five years he can be an active, positive member of society.

remember, we've got to carry each other and WALK ON.

last unicorn's signature really applies to everything.
I know your post is in jest, but I actually just do want to say that for the record, I believe that some people can't be rehabilitated (by medications, prayer, positive reinforcement, therapy or anything else really).
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Old 11-11-2009, 03:49 PM   #98
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I don't understand why something that has no empirical evidence to prove it is effective is still in use.
Well, that hasn't stopped the government before, now has it? And I dispute this, anyway. Prosecutors will argue that the threat of the DP is quite effective in plea bargaining, in persuading the killer to disclose body locations, in testifying against accomplices, etc.

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The death penalty does not meet all the goals of corrections.
Neither does, say, supermax prisons. Are you going to advocate their closing?

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why is the USA the only developed nation to implement the death penalty? why do you think the rest of the developed world doesn't use it as a punishment?
Yet most polls show a majority of people in these nations support its reinstatement.

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could you answer a question without snark?
You know, with all due respect, you're not completely innocent on this charge yourself...

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Originally Posted by phillyfan26 View Post

That's your opinion. I personally believe that "beyond a reasonable doubt" is much different than "we know 100% for sure" but hey, that's just me (and logic). I personally believe that when 107 prisoners have been exonerated while on death row before they got executed in the past thirty years, that means there's more people we've killed who were innocent. I don't like the idea that we killed a guy for something he didn't do. But that's just me. You're entitled to being comfortable with murdering innocent people with your tax dollars, I suppose.
Which is why we need to be 100% sure before the sentencing. And please don't say I'm fine with murdering innocent people, because that's not true, and you know it's not true.

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And no, it's not. Because it's $2.6 million past what it costs to keep that same individual in prison for a life sentence. The cost per individual in a prison is a fraction of what it costs to kill a person. You've got it backwards.
A DP case costs about, what, $2 million? Prisons, depending on size and security level, cost hundreds of millions of dollars to build.

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I'm against the death penalty for a few reasons. I don't believe the government/judicial system should have the power to decide life and death.
But you realize the police and military are potentially faced with this task everyday, right? Are you against them using lethal force in all circumstances?
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Old 11-11-2009, 03:51 PM   #99
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[/QUOTE]


Quote:
You know, with all due respect, you're not completely innocent on this charge yourself..

[/QUOTE]


*QFAT

*quoted for absolute truth.
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Old 11-11-2009, 03:52 PM   #100
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Old 11-11-2009, 03:53 PM   #101
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that's a double post there, big guy.
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Old 11-11-2009, 03:55 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by 2861U2 View Post
Which is why we need to be 100% sure before the sentencing.
How does one make this guarantee? Last time I checked we are still human and there are no absolutes in what we do... except that death is absolute.

We just had a case that more than likely put to death an innocent man. Of course Gov Perry is going to do everything he can to sweep it under the rug... But please enlighten me on how you give an absolute yes.

How do you reconcile that?
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Old 11-11-2009, 04:11 PM   #103
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Which is why we need to be 100% sure before the sentencing. And please don't say I'm fine with murdering innocent people, because that's not true, and you know it's not true.



A DP case costs about, what, $2 million? Prisons, depending on size and security level, cost hundreds of millions of dollars to build.
There's no such thing as 100% sure in the American legal system, which is my point. The death penalty is a certain result in an uncertain system. "Beyond a reasonable doubt" is not certainty. 107 exonerations from death row are proof of that.

No, it costs $2.6 million MORE than the cost of keeping one person in prison for life. The cost being an average when factoring in building and maintenance costs. $2.6 million more than that.
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Old 11-11-2009, 04:12 PM   #104
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that's a double post there, big guy.
i was so excited to see another man check you.

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Old 11-11-2009, 04:21 PM   #105
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I still can't get over being against raising taxes to fund healthcare but OK with raising them to fund executions. Wow.
yep. that's beyond belief.
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