JFK: WHAT RESONANCE Does He HAVE to People 40 YEARS Old and YOUNGER?

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dazzledbylight

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This thread is inspired by an article I was reading.


I was 10 years old when JFK was assassinated.

I knew it was wrong to do such a thing in general, AND
from the people around me- mostly on the more liberal side-
I took their cues of sadness/horror. Yes, I'm quite sure
that Centrists and more Moderate and somme Conservative
Republicans felt the same.

However it wouldn't be until later through articles, radio discussions
etc that I understood (according to certain POVs and parts of my own)
how much we might have lost.


Does he have any resonance/relevance to you today?


(unfortunately I don't have Net at home so I probably won't
see some responses until next week)
 
I associate JFK and his speeches with a time when post WWII America still aspired to be great, instead of the business / political interest smash and grab that it is today.

All of that passed on with Nixon and Vietnam as we were reminded as a nation how shitty many people are. What's there to be happy about on a grand scale since the moon race and civil rights movement, besides an isolated pocket of brilliance (Silicon Valley) and the Soviet Union collapsing under its own ridiculous, groaning weight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHhrZgojY1Q
 
I don't think he has the power of younger over young peoples imagination. As a leader, he did capture that imagination which is a huge part of leadership.

The world is different because he was a part of it. It isn't 1963 anymore. Obama and Clinton are his ideological/spiritual heirs but they have different challenges in a different time. When looking at 20th century presidents they do reflect their period in which they govern. Just like how music changes over time too.

He was the first television president and appeared outgoing and extroverted. Now no president could not afford to have a little bit of an MTV star in him. This wasn't the case prior to 1950.

Personally I am glad that more transparency is present in politics now then in the JFK era. The shit he got away with behind closed doors is unbelievable.
 
Yes, I'm quite sure
that Centrists and more Moderate and somme Conservative
Republicans felt the same.

Can you elaborate? Surely you're not saying that only "some" on the right were horrified by his death...

I'd place him right about in the middle on the presidents list. A lot of the stuff I've read on him hardly ever gets mentioned by the people who idolize him. He was not strong on civil rights, he treated his security people like crap, he was a known cheater, and he only wanted to go to the moon to beat the Soviets, not because he thought what NASA was doing was important. And that's not mentioning Bay of Pigs and the obvious stuff. He was not a skilled politician (same way Obama isn't), and he would never get the nomination of today's party.

To answer the OP question, no- to me, JFK's presidency is one of the more inconsequential ones of the 20th century. Kennedy's legacy is much more in what he represented (the excitement, the youth, the hope, etc.) than in what he actually accomplished. I can really only think of the flaws when I think of his presidency. :shrug:
 
He was not a skilled politician (same way Obama isn't)

Considering the things Obama has actually accomplished with such a bitterly divisive, partisan and obstructionist Congress, I wonder what the threshold is that would make him a skilled politician.
 
I'm over the age of 40, but I don't understand your question.

All of us under the age of 100 are not the first
people to live on the planet.

A good reason, I think, why we should study history.

When I read about JFK or Edgar Allen Poe, I'm reading about real
people who lived a life.

If you are restricting yourself to just now, you are missing everything before.
 
the iron horse said:
If you think JFK was a liberal, you should do some reading.
He was, in my opinion, the last true conservative Democratic
president.

And some more research on Lennon also.

Any examples of Lennon or JFK that would make them a conservative?
 
I like when people think for themselves and post their own opinions and then back it up, not one other person's agenda driven opinion.

Which song do you speak of?


The first two lines:

Well, I tried so hard to settle down
but, the Angel of Destruction keeps houndin' me all around
 
I'm over the age of 40, but I don't understand your question.

All of us under the age of 100 are not the first
people to live on the planet.

A good reason, I think, why we should study history.

When I read about JFK or Edgar Allen Poe, I'm reading about real
people who lived a life.

If you are restricting yourself to just now, you are missing everything before.

That was very well said.....I agree totally.
 
Considering the things Obama has actually accomplished with such a bitterly divisive, partisan and obstructionist Congress, I wonder what the threshold is that would make him a skilled politician.

Politicians cop too much shit as it is. Our state premier wakes up at 4:30am and goes to bed at 11pm. They work pretty hard and obviously wouldn't be in the positions they're in without some sort of skill.

I'm over the age of 40, but I don't understand your question.

All of us under the age of 100 are not the first
people to live on the planet.

A good reason, I think, why we should study history.

When I read about JFK or Edgar Allen Poe, I'm reading about real
people who lived a life.

If you are restricting yourself to just now, you are missing everything before.

Can anyone give me some advice on what to do when you find yourself agreeing with an iron horse post?
 
I'm really struggling to think of one thing Jack Kennedy did other than be youngish and handsome-ish. Johnson was an infinitely greater, albeit deeply flawed, president. Vietnam destroyed his presidency and it would have done the same to Kennedy's, had he lived.
 
If you think JFK was a liberal, you should do some reading.
He was, in my opinion, the last true conservative Democratic
president.

And some more research on Lennon also.

I get you on Kennedy being Conservative. But both him and Lennon connected with the people in a way only a left leaning leader could.

They might be personally conservative or financially conservative but they did present a somewhat left leaning image. Kennedy espousing Civil rights and Lennon supporting writing songs that were pro-women.

They are similar to Michael Moore, who may be personally well off, but still is identified as a leader of the left.
 
:wave: hey thanks for the posts!

I had nio idea I'd be able to connect to Interland tonight at the Library!
- b/c for the last 2 months everytime I have been here at Library with my laptop (no net at home) I've been suddenly kicked out of Interland. I htought my safari browser had gotten to outdated.

For what ever reason it's working tonight! Unfortunately I didn't bring my Adpator cord with me...down to 19% battery....


I'm sorry I didn't seem clear to some peole


the article was asking what did people today think about JFK, and answered it's Own Question in a particular way that the author felt people thought about JFK today. I didn't want to pursue that line so I htought of asking ....

..... for the 40's and under group
b/c the writer was talking about those who had some real time memories of him ( from people in their late 50's, 60 yrs and higher in age) who continued to "carry the flame" for him. Three newish books on him all written by people in those age brackets). This would also tell me at least from the people who posted.... whether they came up with the same type of answers this author was positing.

I'll have to answer the other questions/comments mor fully next week> Iwon't be at the librbary till then.

Kieran I do beleive I have a very interseting story/example of his learning in office...


oh he was a mixed/flawed person for sure; with some more conservative and ceneterist views along with some liberal ideas.

anyway, more next week! :wave:

Happy Thanksgiving!
 
Johnson was an infinitely greater, albeit deeply flawed, president. Vietnam destroyed his presidency and it would have done the same to Kennedy's, had he lived.
Inclined to agree, though many historians doubt Kennedy would've gotten us into the level of involvement in Vietnam that Johnson did; Kennedy recognized how unpopular our presence was in the region and had no hope that would change, while Johnson regarded Kennedy's trepidation as weakness (despite agreeing, at the time, that this was primarily 'Asia's war to fight'), and the two men often clashed over it.

I think it's difficult to fairly evaluate Kennedy's record on civil rights, which tends to be the main prism I see him through, from the vantage point of today. He was certainly stronger on civil rights than his opponent, Nixon (his intervention to get MLK out of jail in Atlanta, 1960, endeared him to many African-Americans), and it was Kennedy who in June 1963 got Congress to begin deliberations on the legislation that would become the 1964 Civil Rights Act (hence Johnson's charge to Congress five months later: "No memorial oration or eulogy could more eloquently honor President Kennedy's memory than the earliest possible passage of the civil rights bill for which he fought so long"). But it's also true that behind the scenes Kennedy often dragged his feet for fear of splitting his party, and over time alienated many civil rights leaders by repeatedly lecturing them in private meetings to be patient, don't make all this trouble with marches and sit-ins, can't you see my hands are tied here, etc. etc. There's a reasonable case to be made that without Johnson's far more forceful style and Texas grit driving it, that legislation might never have passed at all, or become pitifully watered down. ("Now John...you've got to go back and get those boys by the balls. Just like a bull gets on top of a cow...and you've got to squeeze, squeeze 'em till they hurt," Johnson told a startled John Lewis, then SNCC chairman, at their first meeting in 1965, urging Lewis to immediately put the newly passed Voting Rights Act to the test through renewed voter registration drives in the Deep South.) But Johnson himself repeatedly dragged his feet behind the scenes too, had personally obstructed civil rights legislation as Senate majority leader in the past, and alienated civil rights leaders more than Kennedy had by cold-shouldering the MFDP delegates at the 1964 Democratic Convention. Even so, like Kennedy, he was unquestionably stronger on civil rights than his opponent, Barry Goldwater.

Mostly, I see Kennedy's iconic status as less a comment on him than on our nostalgia for Americans' outlook on themselves and the world at that point in history. Ot at least, how we imagine that outlook to have been. I remember that my parents considered his death a great tragedy for the country and an ominous foreshadowing of what was to come (MLK, RFK, Vietnam), though they never idolized or venerated him the way some of their friends seemed to.
 
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I regard Kennedy in approximately the same way as I regard Bush jr - as the annointed son and scion of a gangster mafioso family who had the readies to buy enough votes to make him president.

It's a pity he died young, and I'm not 100% convinced Oswald was the only assassin, but, shit, it's 2011.
 
I really admire Kennedy for using federal powers to intervene in in Alabama schools issue?!?

It was about time some people went head to head and not use that "its not our jurisdiction" excuse. W (Bush) could be criticized the same way he stalled during the Katrina disaster.

I also have a soft spot for Kennedy for being the first Catholic president. A big accomplishment.
 
I think it's difficult to fairly evaluate Kennedy's record on civil rights, which tends to be the main prism I see him through, from the vantage point of today.

On the civil rights issue, maybe the biggest, if indirect, impact was appointing Bobby Kennedy to the office of the Attorney General. I probably come to this from the perspective of a lawyer, but it was a significant move forward in the sense of using the judiciary to uphold civil rights rather than passing legislation to do the same.

As for JFK, I always thought of him as a man of his time - no more and no less. Romanticized largely because of the untimeliness and manner of his death. I found Robert to be infinitely more interesting and complex.
 
I really can't stand Bobby Kennedy. Who has eleven kids in this day and age. Really. If I was one of his sons I would have done him in before Sirhan Sirhan.

On paper he looks like 'Mr Ambition' but i would imagine that everything around
him was crumbling like castles made of sand. Oh and ladies, don't buy his passionate speeches stuff. Cause he probably was a serial cheater like his brother.
 
Maybe I sounded a bit harsh above. But in the mans own words:

I was the seventh of nine children. When you come from that far down you have to struggle to survive.

So why would he want to inflict that suffering upon his own?
 
Well in fairness I suppose he didn't have eleven kids in this day and age. He had them in the 1950s and 60s, an era now as remote from us as the Edwardian era was from them.
 
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