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Old 05-29-2009, 04:07 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by anitram View Post

Sonia Sotomayor is as meritocratic as you can get. But I guess she ended up graduating 2nd in her class at Princeton because she was a Latina.
You could be right.

She definitely benefited from affirmative action.



As did Colin Powell, Condi Rice, Clarence Thomas and Alberto Gonzales.

I support affirmative action.
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Old 05-29-2009, 04:21 PM   #92
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You could be right.

She definitely benefited from affirmative action.



how do you know this? what do you mean by "affirmative action"?
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Old 05-29-2009, 04:43 PM   #93
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one example

Quote:
Colin Powell benefited from affirmative action.

Powell's promotion to brigadier general was by President Carter's Secretary of the Army Clifford Alexander. When originally sent an all-white list of candidates for the position, Alexander rejected it, demanding a list that included some blacks. From the revised list, Alexander chose Powell.
and another

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Condoleezza Rice

“I was provost at Stanford. I’m on the record. I supported affirmative action. I don’t believe in quotas. I don’t believe in lowered standards, but I don’t believe that affirmative action means lowered standards. I think it means looking outside of formal networks to find people who might be equally capable.

Stanford didn’t need another Soviet specialist when they hired me. I was there on a Ford Foundation fellowship to teach Soviet specialists about international security issues. Stanford, I think, took a look at this young Black woman and liked my work. I know that they created a space to hire me because they wanted to diversity the faculty.

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what do you mean by "affirmative action"?
this definition works

The terms affirmative action refers to policies that take race, ethnicity, or gender into consideration in an attempt to promote equal opportunity.
The focus of such policies ranges from employment and education to public contracting and military.
The impetus towards affirmative action is twofold: to maximize diversity in all levels of society, along with its presumed benefits, and to redress perceived disadvantages due to overt, institutional, or involuntary discrimination.
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Old 05-29-2009, 05:12 PM   #94
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There is no question that admission policies, particularly at the Ivy League schools, make use of affirmative action, usually on a straight points system.

Having said that, you don't get into a Princeton or Harvard AND finish at the top of your class if you're not actually capable.
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Old 05-29-2009, 05:27 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anitram View Post
There is no question that admission policies, particularly at the Ivy League schools, make use of affirmative action, usually on a straight points system.

Having said that, you don't get into a Princeton or Harvard AND finish at the top of your class if you're not actually capable.

I support diversification

that is why I support affirmative action

I have never said they were not competent or capable

I do believe there most likely are 'white' students that would have been in their place, that were qualified and capable, if 'affirmative action' policies did not get minorities placed there.


I believe some people think 'affirmative action' means quotas or set asides.

Ten per cent will be black, regardless of qualifications.
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Old 05-29-2009, 05:37 PM   #96
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I support diversification

that is why I support affirmative action
As a practical matter, I support affirmative action because we have not yet come up with a better way of diversifying, as you say.
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Old 05-29-2009, 05:46 PM   #97
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As a practical matter, I support affirmative action because we have not yet come up with a better way of diversifying, as you say.


i agree.

i would also point to GWB as someone who certainly benefited from affirmative action for rich white people. legacies at the Ivies, while not nearly what it was 30 years ago, is still alive and well.

and i think both policies are defensible. i think there are real reasons why schools admit legacies, and many legacies are entirely qualified.

the problem i have is the rage that's directed at people who have been advanced because they can offer diversity. just look at some of the comments in this thread. instantly, because she's latina, it's suggested that this is her only qualification for the court, or it's implied that there are probably X number of white judges who have been passed over (who are, it's implied, likely more qualified than she is). it's just astonishing to me that white judges have significantly more obstacles they face in life than a poor Puerto Rican woman growing up in the Bronx housing projects.

that's all crap. everyone at some point in their life has been treated preferentially due to circumstances beyond their control. just look at Irving Kristol's son. is he really more qualified to be the editor of the Weekly Standard? i'd say no. but, yet, because of birth, he is.

i wonder -- what would the Republicans be saying if she were a (likely Republican!) Cuban who had fled Castro?
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Old 05-29-2009, 06:02 PM   #98
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I supported it in the Michigan case.

I seem to recall most of the progressives in here did not.


To me it seemed like it hit too close to home.

That their 'spot' at school could have gone to a minority was a sacrifice they did not want to entertain.
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Old 05-30-2009, 12:44 PM   #99
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A tale of two project experiences: Sotomayor, Latina liberal, and Lloyd Marcus, black conservative
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Old 05-30-2009, 12:51 PM   #100
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People are divided by class rather than race. Affirmative action based on racial or gender group is inherently wicked; affirmative action based on giving people from deprived socioeconoomic backgrounds a leg-up I think could make sense.
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Old 05-30-2009, 04:08 PM   #101
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People are divided by class rather than race. Affirmative action based on racial or gender group is inherently wicked; affirmative action based on giving people from deprived socioeconoomic backgrounds a leg-up I think could make sense.
Hear hear.
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Old 05-30-2009, 10:37 PM   #102
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People are divided by class rather than race. Affirmative action based on racial or gender group is inherently wicked; affirmative action based on giving people from deprived socioeconoomic backgrounds a leg-up I think could make sense.


and yet, so often, as is the case with Ms. Sotomayor, one's race often determines the socioeconomic background one is born into.

but this is all well and good -- it's interesting when white people act like affirmative action is vastly more wicked than actual racism.
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Old 05-31-2009, 10:40 AM   #103
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People are divided by class rather than race.
People are divided by both, because they are unfortunately still largely intertwined.

We would not be speaking of the "emerging Black middle class" if it didn't have to emerge out of somewhere. To pretend otherwise is ignoring historical realities.
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Old 06-03-2009, 09:05 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by daygloeyes2 View Post
Glenn Beck posted a classy twittee update about Sotomayor's diabetes.

Glenn Beck: Can Messiah Obama Heal Sotomayor's Diabetes? | TPMDC
What an ignorant ass

Reason # 1,500,792 why that Twitter thing is a complete void. I don't understand why anyone wants to read the constant ramblings of anyone else(or wants to try to help Ashton Kutcher beat Larry King in number of "followers")-let alone Glenn Beck. People living their lives through Twitter boggles my mind.
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Old 06-03-2009, 04:11 PM   #105
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Huffington Post 6-3-09

Of the thousands of cases decided by Judge Sonia Sotomayor, the one that could have the most influence on her confirmation for the Supreme Court involves the defense of New York City Police Department employee who was fired for distributing bigoted and racist material.

Sotomayor's opinion in the 2002 case of Pappas v. Giuliani does not seem like a judicial cause célèbre for progressives. But in the days since she was named Obama Supreme Court nominee, it has emerged as an effective counterweight to charges that she is a judicial activist bent on helping minorities like herself.

Those intimately involved in the case say that Sotomayor's dissent -- in which she defended the First Amendment rights of a employee who had distributed white supremacist material -- shows a type of jurisprudence diametrically at odds with the caricature painted by her conservative critics.

"It showed that she is not knee jerk when it comes to dealing with racial issues," said Chris Dunn, an attorney for the New York Civil Liberties Union who argued the defense. "That was the case in which she took the side of a person obviously engaging in racist conduct and recognized the important First Amendment interest that was represented. She respected that interest and stuck to it."

Thomas Pappas, had worked in the New York City Police Department since January, 1982, primarily in the Management Information Systems Division. In August 1999, he was fired by then commissioner Howard Safir after it was discovered that he had mailed more than 200 pieces of racially insensitive and anti-Semitic material from his home to various political groups who had been soliciting him for donations. Among the more than 200 or so pieces of literature Pappas had sent out were pamphlets from the National Association for the Advancement of White People.

A member and chairman of the Populist Party of the Town of North Hempstead, whose platform included repealing the federal income tax and abolishing the IRS, Pappas sued Safir and New York City's Mayor Rudy Giuliani on grounds that they had violated his First Amendment rights. In October 2000, U.S. District Court Judge Naomi Reice Buchwald ruled that the NYPD had operated within the rule of law.

The case was appealed and in 2002 it found its way to the Second Circuit Court of Appeals. The three-judge panel, which included Sotomayor, considered two main components of the case: Whether Pappas's "speech" was of public concern and whether it had "interfered with" the NYPD's activities. Two of the three judges upheld the district court decision that it didn't matter that Pappas had sent these mailings anonymously from his private home. "Although Pappas tried to conceal his identity as speaker," they ruled, "he took the risk that the effort would fail."

While finding the speech "offensive, hateful and insulting," Sotomayor dissented. Her basis was the precedent established by Rankin v. McPherson, in which the Supreme Court held that a public employee in Texas who cheered the assassination attempt on Ronald Reagan in a conversation with a fellow worker had not interfered with the office's operations, because her job did not require public contact. But Sotomayor also did not shy away from the constitutional implications of the Pappas case.

"I of course do not dispute the majority's premise that a public employee's free speech interest is often subordinated to the effective functioning of a government employer," Sotomayor's dissent read. "I also agree that it is appropriate to consider the agency's mission in relation to the nature of the speech, and I appreciate the enormous importance of race relations to the operation of the NYPD. These facts alone, however, do not support the constitutionality of the NYPD's termination of Pappas. The well-established case law of the Supreme Court and this Court requires a more searching inquiry."

Seven years later, that opinion and those words in particular have struck observers as uniquely important aspects of Sotomayor's lengthy record. The political implications are obvious: A Latina judge accused of being a "reverse-racist" took the side of the white supremacist police officer at a time when the NYPD was widely resented and distrusted by New York's minority communities.

"Certainly during the Giuliani administration there were many instances where police officers engaged in racially insensitive conduct, at best, while on duty," said Dunn. "And so the easy thing for someone to do would be to say, 'let's fire someone for engaging in racially insensitive activity.' That would have been the easy out. It was certainly what people traditionally viewed as progressives were calling for. But she didn't accept that. She said that even though what this guy did may be racist, I will uphold his constitutional rights. And that is a position of principle."

Observers say Sotomayor's dissent also offers a vivid indication into what type of kind of judicial philosophy she will bring to the bench.

"What I found after looking at some of her statements is someone who I think takes the First Amendment extremely seriously," said Maria Blanco, Executive Director for the Chief Justice Earl Warren Institute at Berkeley University. "She went with the facts. But what you see is she that she also put an extremely heavy burden of proof on a defendant who is trying to abridge privacy or First Amendment protections. That has not been the case with the Supreme Court in the past, though we have had some famous pro-First Amendment judges."

"I actually think that on these issues she may end up being a [Justice William] Brennan type," Blanco added. "That is just my instinct as a lawyer who has done constitutional law for many years."
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