Israel attacks Gaza - Page 9 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 01-06-2009, 03:33 PM   #121
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 16,295
Local Time: 11:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by deep View Post
Who is missing the fact?

That is exactly the kind of place that Hamas would hide those Katyusha rockets, and in Hospitals, ambulances, under wounded women on stretchers, don't you get it.
This is all confirmed by the IDF.
__________________

__________________
anitram is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 03:34 PM   #122
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 08:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by financeguy View Post
Does it trouble you... less indistinguishable from Strongbow's?
Great mimes -
speak alike.
__________________

__________________
deep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 03:34 PM   #123
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,499
Local Time: 11:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by deep View Post
kids as shields - not practical at all


do kids work better when they're lit up like christmas trees and stumbling out of a smoldering bus?
__________________
Irvine511 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 03:37 PM   #124
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 08:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
do kids work better when they're lit up like christmas trees and stumbling out of a smoldering bus?
a good parallel

each side believes collateral damage is justified for their goals
__________________
deep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 03:37 PM   #125
Acrobat
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 459
Local Time: 04:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by deep View Post
Who is missing the fact?

That is exactly the kind of place that Hamas would hide those Katyusha rockets, and in Hospitals, ambulances, under wounded women on stretchers, don't you get it.
There are international UN administrators and observers in the building. How exactly is that meant to work? Unless you think the UN is a Hamas front organisation.

Oh let me guess, they're the bad UN just like the ones at UN observation the IDF blew up in Lebanon in 2006 for absolutely no reason (well they may have observed something the IDF would like to keep quiet).

I'm sure the IDF will have a story of mortars or gunfire coming from the building immediately before they hit it, or 'evidence' of weapons stored there. They may even have a enquiry where the a scapegoat is brought forward then let off.
__________________
popshopper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 03:38 PM   #126
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,499
Local Time: 11:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by financeguy View Post
Does it trouble you that this post reads to me precisely like what a Fox News talking head would say, or indeed, that on this issue your views appear to be more or less indistinguishable from Strongbow's?


i arrive at my own decisions. i have been to enough pro-Palestinian "peace rallies" in Europe to know that there's a lot of BS out there, on both sides.

you'll notice i'm not excusing the actions of the IDF. simply because i understand *why* they're doing something doesn't mean at all that i think it's a good course of action. if anything, i think i've said that Israel is doing exactly the wrong thing.

but i don't think my characterization of Hamas is at all inaccurate. i think they are a bunch of theocratic murderous thugs who care about their political power, not the Palestinians.

i don't find it much of an argument to say that i "read like" Fox News or Strongbow. unlike both of those mouthpieces, i think my take is nuanced. i am not the most informed person on this topic, but i am not totally ignorant. and unlike Strongbow, you'll find no blanket assertions of the righteousness or morality of anybody in this situation.

i think it's a tragedy. nothing i've said undermines that.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 03:40 PM   #127
Acrobat
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 459
Local Time: 04:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by anitram View Post
This is all confirmed by the IDF.
Oh the neutral IDF.

If only there where some independent observers in the region like reporters, but Israel stopping them getting in, in the weeks leading up to their illegal invasion

If you honestly believe that a UN run building was a weapons cache, then I've got a bridge to sell you.
__________________
popshopper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 03:40 PM   #128
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 16,295
Local Time: 11:45 AM
Quote:
The Israeli military struck near a United Nations school in Gaza on Tuesday, killing at least 30 people among hundreds who had sought refuge at the school from the fighting in the beleaguered territory, the United Nations and hospital officials in Gaza said.

The officials said those killed included men, women and children. The Israeli military, in a statement, confirmed it had carried out a mortar attack on the school, saying an initial investigation suggested its forces had responded to mortar fire coming from the school.

The United Nations has opened its schools in Gaza to provide shelter and gave the Israelis the coordinates of those locations. John Ging of the United Nations relief agency said.
Heckuva job there.
__________________
anitram is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 03:41 PM   #129
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,499
Local Time: 11:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by popshopper View Post
There are international UN administrators and observers in the building. How exactly is that meant to work? Unless you think the UN is a Hamas front organisation.

Oh let me guess, they're the bad UN just like the ones at UN observation the IDF blew up in Lebanon in 2006 for absolutely no reason (well they may have observed something the IDF would like to keep quiet).

I'm sure the IDF will have a story of mortars or gunfire coming from the building immediately before they hit it, or 'evidence' of weapons stored there. They may even have a enquiry where the a scapegoat is brought forward then let off.


evidently, the post you're responding to was a bit too "deep."
__________________
Irvine511 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 03:42 PM   #130
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 08:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by popshopper View Post
There are international UN administrators and observers in the building. How exactly is that meant to work? Unless you think the UN is a Hamas front organisation.
How many U N resolutions condemning Israel have been put up to a vote,
to be vetoed only by the U S. The only country the has the decency to stand with our only true ally and the only DEMOCRACY in the Mid-East?


Without the U S the U N would have severely damaged Israel rights to exist in its current form.
__________________
deep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 03:42 PM   #131
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,499
Local Time: 11:45 AM
the truth of the matter, is that this appears to be a tragic, inexcusable mistake by the IDF.

and Hamas is likely thrilled.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 03:46 PM   #132
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 16,295
Local Time: 11:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
the truth of the matter, is that this appears to be a tragic, inexcusable mistake by the IDF.

and Hamas is likely thrilled.
Yes, except it's your tax dollars paying for the IDF mistakes, and not for Hamas' emotional state.
__________________
anitram is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 03:51 PM   #133
Acrobat
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 459
Local Time: 04:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
i arrive at my own decisions. i have been to enough pro-Palestinian "peace rallies" in Europe to know that there's a lot of BS out there, on both sides.

you'll notice i'm not excusing the actions of the IDF. simply because i understand *why* they're doing something doesn't mean at all that i think it's a good course of action. if anything, i think i've said that Israel is doing exactly the wrong thing.

but i don't think my characterization of Hamas is at all inaccurate. i think they are a bunch of theocratic murderous thugs who care about their political power, not the Palestinians.

i don't find it much of an argument to say that i "read like" Fox News or Strongbow. unlike both of those mouthpieces, i think my take is nuanced. i am not the most informed person on this topic, but i am not totally ignorant. and unlike Strongbow, you'll find no blanket assertions of the righteousness or morality of anybody in this situation.

i think it's a tragedy. nothing i've said undermines that.
Hamas are bunch of murdering thugs I agree, but what would you have the Palestinians do just die quietly in their 'refugee' camps? Israel has always scuppered any deal which doesn't give them exactly what they want. They've continued to illegally build settlements, and the last 18 months despite a truce and ceasefire, the israelis have stopped the flow of food, water, electricity, heating supplies. The latest violence kicked off when Hamas responded (with increased rocket fire) after an Israeli bombing raid killed 6 people.

People act like the Palestine's and Israel are neighbours sharing a border when in actual fact the Palestinians are completely at Israels whims, they have no right of self determination, no viable borders which Israel doesn't not control. They have every right as all subjugated people have of taking up arms against their aggressors.

Israels actions are a political stunt aimed (they precipitated the conflict with the blockade and bombing just in time to give the ruling coalition a boost with an election fast approaching) , but they get away with it because the American's allow it (hell the American's head is so far up the Israeli's arse they even let them blow up a US Navy ship full of Sailors with nothing more than a please don't do that again). For years the IRA launched mortars and attacks from the ROI into Northern Ireland. We hardly had the RAF blowing the shit out of Dublin did we.
__________________
popshopper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 03:52 PM   #134
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,499
Local Time: 11:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by anitram View Post
Yes, except it's your tax dollars paying for the IDF mistakes, and not for Hamas' emotional state.


yes, this is my fault, isn't it. but why stop with me? did the Europeans not put the Jews back in the desert to begin with? i know we like to identify the USA as the source of all bad things on the planet, but once in a while, things are more complex than that.

i don't see any contradiction between decrying every instance of IDF overreach and violent disproportionality (i guess you're a terrorist state only when you're really good at killing people), and also understanding that Israel also must deal with an interpretation of Islam that disallows the idea of Jewish national equality.

nothing's easy here, folks.

there's no idiot Bush parading around with a posse of idiots to blame.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 03:55 PM   #135
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,499
Local Time: 11:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by popshopper View Post
Hamas are bunch of murdering thugs I agree, but what would you have the Palestinians do just die quietly in their 'refugee' camps? Israel has always scuppered any deal which doesn't give them exactly what they want. They've continued to illegally build settlements, and the last 18 months despite a truce and ceasefire, the israelis have stopped the flow of food, water, electricity, heating supplies. The latest violence kicked off when Hamas responded (with increased rocket fire) after an Israeli bombing raid killed 6 people.

and what happened in 2000?


Quote:
People act like the Palestine's and Israel are neighbours sharing a border when in actual fact the Palestinians are completely at Israels whims, they have no right of self determination, no viable borders which Israel doesn't not control. They have every right as all subjugated people have of taking up arms against their aggressors.
you see, i understand this perspective. i do. i just don't think it's the end of story.



Quote:
Israels actions are a political stunt aimed (they precipitated the conflict with the blockade and bombing just in time to give the ruling coalition a boost with an election fast approaching) , but they get away with it because the American's allow it (hell the American's head is so far up the Israeli's arse they even let them blow up a US Navy ship full of Sailors with nothing more than a please don't do that again). For years the IRA launched mortars and attacks from the ROI into Northern Ireland. We hardly had the RAF blowing the shit out of Dublin did we.

and the reverse is true as well.

again, this whole "crisis" has always been a stunt, it's always been about PR, it's always been about crying for attention, about anti-Semitism, about arab oppression, about arab insecurities, about any other million little things.

no side is innocent, and no side is guilty.
__________________

__________________
Irvine511 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:45 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com