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Old 08-07-2014, 12:08 AM   #91
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Israel

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Do you have any view on the point made by Gene Simmons when he said that "artists who avoid Israel - such as Elvis Costello, the Pixies and Roger Waters, who joined the movement after appearing in Israel in 2006 - would be better served directing their anger at Arab dictators."


I don't think it's an either/or situation.

There is plenty of opprobrium to be passed around.

My worry is that, since the Israeli invasion of Lebanon in the early 1980s, history has made an actual solution impossible. I don't think 1948 or 1967 or 3000 years ago matters much. What matters are the recent images of children ripped to bits by bombs in Gaza or children set afire on a bus in Tel Aviv. The two "sides" have radicalized each other perhaps past the point of no return.


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Old 08-08-2014, 10:16 AM   #92
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I don't think it's an either/or situation.

There is plenty of opprobrium to be passed around.

My worry is that, since the Israeli invasion of Lebanon in the early 1980s, history has made an actual solution impossible. I don't think 1948 or 1967 or 3000 years ago matters much. What matters are the recent images of children ripped to bits by bombs in Gaza or children set afire on a bus in Tel Aviv. The two "sides" have radicalized each other perhaps past the point of no return.


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I don't believe the reality and facts support the claim of
Hamas (and other Islamic terrorist) moral equivalency to Israel.
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Old 08-08-2014, 10:46 AM   #93
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I don't believe the reality and facts support the claim of
Hamas (and other Islamic terrorist) moral equivalency to Israel.

does Israel's moral superiority to Hamas give it the right to kill civilians -- wildly disproportionate numbers to the amount of IDF forces or Israeli citizens -- and does this one-sided slaughter reduce any of this moral superiority?
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Old 08-08-2014, 11:23 AM   #94
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I don't believe the reality and facts support the claim of
Hamas (and other Islamic terrorist) moral equivalency to Israel.
I agree. Hamas actually uses the carnage to gain the media's sympathy and win the PR war. There is only less carnage on Israel's side because they care enough about the lives of their citizens to actually defend them. Hamas sacrifices Palestinian lives to achieve their objective. I'd call that moral opposites.
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Old 08-08-2014, 12:05 PM   #95
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I agree. Hamas actually uses the carnage to gain the media's sympathy and win the PR war. There is only less carnage on Israel's side because they care enough about the lives of their citizens to actually defend them. Hamas sacrifices Palestinian lives to achieve their objective. I'd call that moral opposites.


i agree.

but Israel plays directly into their hands and does exactly what they want them to do, every time.
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Old 08-08-2014, 12:27 PM   #96
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You would think Israel would have learned by now not to take the bait. "Fear acts as a retraint against perfect love." They can't win this battle indefinitely.
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Old 08-08-2014, 01:18 PM   #97
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No--Way--Out

There is no way out of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. It breaks my heart for Israel's sake. It is a bitter-sweet reality. Either Israel enters into a multi-state resolution with her sworn enemy or the current situation continues, with her enemy gaining strength each time until "the words of god will have been accomplished." Either way, the beginning of the end will be when the "disgusting thing causing desolation stands in the holy place and the temple fortress gets removed" and the physical state of Israel will come to an end, though god will not forsake his chosen ones entirely because god is faithful even when his people are not. There is no way out of this inevitability. The very kings with whom Israel is trusting to have her back will look away as they currently proceed to arm the very ones who seek Israel's annihilation. There is a famous quote, from whom I don't presently recall, which aptly expresses that nations don't have friends, they have interests. "The love of money is the root of all evil." The love of wealth, indeed the wealth of the world, causes kings to dance with nations in distress in order to subjugate their resources and their peoples. Because their quest to control all the wealth is advancing, their first love--Israel-- who was a loyal partner to them in exchange for her own protection, is increasingly looking old and haggard. They will sincerely mourn her death, but they won't stop it, because they do not worship Israel's god--her god which she herself has forsaken. "The stumbling blocks must come, but woe to those through whom they come." It's a Catch 22 for all sides, and all that has been foretold will come to pass. All the kings of the earth will reap according to the way they have sown. There is no escaping it for anyone. There is No--Way--Out.
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Old 08-08-2014, 02:02 PM   #98
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Israel has been using the Samson Option for decades now. The world has mostly turned a blind eye to IDF's insanely disproportionate response to Hamas' rockets until now; partly due to Holocaust induced guilt, partly due to Israeli/Jewish global influence and power, and the rest because no one gives a shit about the plight of the Palestinians (least of all the rest of the global muslim community). The only reason there's been some outrage over what's happening right now is because of Israel's slaughtering of children, and how social media today enables the broadcast of those harrowing images across the globe.

When general Moshe Dayan said, 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.', he really meant it.
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Old 08-08-2014, 02:30 PM   #99
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i agree.

but Israel plays directly into their hands and does exactly what they want them to do, every time.
Yes. And so does the U.S. I said this when GWBush retaliated after 9/11; now President Obama is taking the bait.
We will not win this fight either, because our motive isn't justice or humanitarianism, that's just our excuse. Here we go again.
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Old 08-10-2014, 11:37 PM   #100
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"Neighbors are on edge after a swastika was painted at a nearby synagogue.
Police said they do not believe the murder of the rabbi was a hate crime, but many neighbors feel differently."

New York rabbi shot and killed in Miami en route to synagogue - CBS News
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Old 08-23-2014, 08:34 AM   #101
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A four year old Israeli girl was killed by Hamas rocket fire.

Also...
Hamas executes 18 suspected collaborators with Israel in Gaza | JPost | Israel News
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Old 08-23-2014, 08:59 AM   #102
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And?
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Old 08-23-2014, 09:10 AM   #103
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Don't remember hearing anything from the iron horse about the countless children killed by the IDF.
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Old 08-23-2014, 02:31 PM   #104
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Palestinian 4 year old girls don't count...


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Old 08-23-2014, 03:36 PM   #105
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Why is it so much different when a child dies? As if the adults dying aren't bad? Every innocent person dying is one too many if you ask me, and it makes zero difference what age or gender they are to me.
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