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Old 08-04-2014, 12:09 AM   #61
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Israeli novelist Amos Oz, a famous critic of the Israeli occupation and founder of “Peace Now,” explained in an interview with Germany's Deutsche Welle why he supports the war. "The only way to repel aggression is unfortunately by force,” he said.

“A relative of mine who survived the Nazi Holocaust in Theresienstadt always reminded her children and her grandchildren that her life was saved in 1945 not by peace demonstrators with placards and flowers but by Soviet soldiers and submachine guns,” he added
In famously argumentative Israel, near total support for Gaza offensive
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Old 08-04-2014, 01:10 AM   #62
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What I would take away from the above quote and claim in general is that it makes little sense to base current foreign policy on events of 70 years ago.
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Old 08-04-2014, 01:19 AM   #63
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What I would take away from the above quote and claim in general is that it makes little sense to base current foreign policy on events of 70 years ago.
Well, as they are trying to burn down synagogues in France to demonstrate, no doubt, their "pro-peace" credentials with the (cough, splutter) Religion of Peace I'd argue, sadly, that events of 70 years ago are as relevant as ever.
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Old 08-04-2014, 02:12 AM   #64
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Well put. And in order to get a balanced view on that situation, it must be acknowledged that opposition to Israel is not necessarily anti-Semitism. I think that equation is still prominent in US political discourse and needs to be abandoned. That's not to say that anti-Semitism has disappeared or is unimportant, but rather that there are numerous reasons to criticize Israel that have nothing to do with the Jewish element.
Frankly, the people who scream "anti-Semitism!!!" at the mildest critique of Israel and throw the term around inappropriately are just helping to obscure the identification of actual anti-Semitism.
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Old 08-04-2014, 01:53 PM   #65
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It's pretty much a shitty situation from either side. I can't really judge as I don't know enough on the situation, but I don't think in a situation this big there is only one party at fault.
Well, one of the sides perpetually steals land off the other side, gets into apartheid mode with the wall and decides to unleash disproportionate "self defense" genocidal attacks upon on a regular basis. (much like the last time, one of the sides is in two-digit casualty count. the other one was past 1000 on 26 July)

Yet they are continually surprised when the other side fights back after years of de facto occupation.
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Old 08-04-2014, 02:12 PM   #66
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The current support for Gaza stems from the deliberate butchering of children by Israel. Those who are aware of it (far too few, unfortunately, due to the incredibly biased mainstream media coverage) are horrified, repulsed and nauseated by it. Playing the anti-Semitism card here is, frankly, as disgusting as it is moronic.
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Old 08-04-2014, 03:50 PM   #67
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Well, one of the sides perpetually steals land off the other side, gets into apartheid mode with the wall and decides to unleash disproportionate "self defense" genocidal attacks upon on a regular basis. (much like the last time, one of the sides is in two-digit casualty count. the other one was past 1000 on 26 July)

Yet they are continually surprised when the other side fights back after years of de facto occupation.

Sadly, the other side perpetually launches rocket attacks it knows are mostly ineffective in causing casualties, except for getting its own people killed (which is good PR for its own cause), uses whatever money it gets its hands on to buy weapons instead of improving the living conditions of its own people.

Yet, they keep on fooling many when the other side fights back after yet another massive rocket assault.

What I maybe consider the saddest to get from the post I quoted and my reply, both are basically correct.

Another thought that popped in my head the past couple of days, what is the situation like in the West Bank? I read today that a person tried to assault an Israeli bus with a bulldozer. And tension has risen in the West Bank. But considering the situation in Gaza (and that much more of the land-stealing is/was in the West Bank and not in Gaza) I have the feeling it's much more quiet there. And a large part of it is likely the difference between Hamas and Fatah.
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Old 08-04-2014, 04:02 PM   #68
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Sadly, the other side perpetually launches rocket attacks it knows are mostly ineffective in causing casualties, except for getting its own people killed (which is good PR for its own cause), uses whatever money it gets its hands on to buy weapons instead of improving the living conditions of its own people.
You could also argue that Hamas wouldn't have risen to power if Israel hadn't put nearly 2 million people in a prison. What do you expect to happen?

It's extremely difficult to form a nuanced opinion on this matter as there is so much history though. It's just one big mess. There doesn't seem to be a solution either. The public perception is definitely turning against Israel which is good I think.
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Old 08-04-2014, 05:00 PM   #69
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I loved this response by Peter Schwartz to an open letter by Brian Eno on the situation and Israel's bombardment. It's not a black & white issue, this world hardly ever is, but way too many people feel it's easier to get complacent:

Peter Schwartz responds to Brian Eno's open letter on Israel-Gaza crisis - Comment - Voices - The Independent
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Old 08-04-2014, 05:18 PM   #70
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I loved this response by Peter Schwartz to an open letter by Brian Eno on the situation and Israel's bombardment. It's not a black & white issue, this world hardly ever is, but way too many people feel it's easier to get complacent:

Peter Schwartz responds to Brian Eno's open letter on Israel-Gaza crisis - Comment - Voices - The Independent


thanks for this. it's very good.
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Old 08-04-2014, 05:28 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Vincent Vega View Post
I loved this response by Peter Schwartz to an open letter by Brian Eno on the situation and Israel's bombardment. It's not a black & white issue, this world hardly ever is, but way too many people feel it's easier to get complacent:

Peter Schwartz responds to Brian Eno's open letter on Israel-Gaza crisis - Comment - Voices - The Independent
I believe that article originates from here (which also includes the Brian Eno letter/post).
David Byrne - Gaza and the Loss of Civilization

I agree with Irvine, it is a very good read.
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Old 08-04-2014, 05:54 PM   #72
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I would say my views in line with Peter Schwartz's. I don't understand why so many academics call for an intellectual boycott of Israel yet not Russia or say Saudi Arabia, with the latter being one of the main sponsor's of terrorism around the world.

As I have probably said before, anti-Semitism is the bridge that can often unite the left and right in politics.

That said I don't see how this current situation benefits Israel. It seems remarkably short term in view and plays into Hamas' hands creating more Martyrs' and more willing join Hamas' cause.

Bah it just seems mental that the west is selling weapons to the Saudi's (who help Hamas out) and Israel, fueling war and strife in a region that does not need it. It is a mess wee continue to tinker with to no good effect.
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Old 08-04-2014, 06:51 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent Vega View Post
I loved this response by Peter Schwartz to an open letter by Brian Eno on the situation and Israel's bombardment. It's not a black & white issue, this world hardly ever is, but way too many people feel it's easier to get complacent:

Peter Schwartz responds to Brian Eno's open letter on Israel-Gaza crisis - Comment - Voices - The Independent
This is an interesting read, but I have trouble with the idea that one has to be aware and critical of all global human rights abuses in order justifiably to criticize Israel.

Also the idea/implication that the history of the region needs to be front and center to current perspectives is not something I can support. The USA's many entanglements with the creation of Israel is no reason for unequivocal support in the present day.
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Old 08-04-2014, 06:58 PM   #74
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Calgary—city of swastikas and ‘Heil Hitler!’


By Arthur Weinreb August 4, 2014 | Comments| Print friendly |
16


Last Friday night, swastikas, most of them backwards, were painted on at least five houses in Calgary SE. And, as in the case of the July 18 pro-Palestinian demonstration where the cops failed to show up while a family of pro-Israel demonstrators were punched, kicked, knocked to the ground and had their Israeli flags stolen, the police have once again downplayed what happened.



While anti-Semitic graffiti can and does appear in a lot of places throughout Canada and the world, once again it is the position of the Calgary Police Service and the local media that once again is telling
Calgary—city of swastikas and ‘Heil Hitler!’
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Old 08-04-2014, 06:59 PM   #75
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Sadly, the other side perpetually launches rocket attacks it knows are mostly ineffective in causing casualties, except for getting its own people killed (which is good PR for its own cause), uses whatever money it gets its hands on to buy weapons instead of improving the living conditions of its own people.
Yep. Agree with this analysis.
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