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Old 08-29-2014, 06:53 AM   #136
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I find it very sad that people on the right have made people on the left often immune to the crimes of Hamas because people on the right won't criticize Israel and people on the left feel they have to default to the other side just to try to move the conversation back to somewhere reasonable.
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Old 08-29-2014, 08:01 AM   #137
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The problem is also that Hamas are terrorists and thugs borne out of opportunity and a leadership vacuum. Think about your average Palestinian woman in her 20s/30s. Probably married before she was 20, on average is having something like 7-8 children all of whom are living in abject poverty with no hope of a future. Level and quality of education are very questionable. Maybe she supports Hamas because they restored some sort of order in Gaza and are able to smuggle and provide contraband FOOD (remember that the Israelis keep Palestinians on a caloric-oriented diet as if they're collectively on Weight Watchers). I don't think she or her young kids have really a full understanding of all the geopolitical implications of Hamas, and maybe they don't even care. Even if her husband himself in Hamas because he's a terrorist or because he sympathizes or because they give him a job to do or whatever, she and those kids are doomed to his fate.

But what we are constantly being asked by those on the right awaiting their rapture is to compare this band of terrorists & thugs to a properly, democratically elected first-world government which has the support (financial to the tunes of billions and every other imaginable support from the lone world superpower). For example, there is a ceasefire and some Hamas idiot goes and shoots off 3 rockets. Probably excellent chances that the "leadership" of Hamas (such as it is) has no idea and no control over what random members are doing in a random field. This is not a trained, disciplined, organized army. But the Israeli response to that is to go flatten 100 buildings and take the collateral damage. And then we all have to sit around the table and say that both sides are equally as bad.

It is a terrible premise because one side is not even really a side, it is a few million unfortunate people in an unfortunate situation without a future ahead of them who have made the unfortunate choice of entrusting this non-existent future to a terrorist group.
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Old 08-29-2014, 12:57 PM   #138
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...and thugs
I don't think we can use this term anymore without racial undertones.
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Old 08-29-2014, 12:59 PM   #139
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Old 08-30-2014, 03:43 AM   #140
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I don't think we can use this term anymore without racial undertones.
Context matters.
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Old 08-30-2014, 11:45 AM   #141
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Context matters.
Can an African-American be called a "thug?" without it being considered a racist term?
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Old 08-31-2014, 12:20 AM   #142
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Can an African-American be called a "thug?" without it being considered a racist term?
As I said, context matters. There's a gulf of a difference between labeling someone a thug who repeatedly engages in violent and deadly behavior with wanton disregard for human life and affixing the label of thug to a teenager with no criminal record who happens to like gangsta rap and shoplifted and pushed a clerk out of his way.
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Old 08-31-2014, 11:24 AM   #143
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a cruel or vicious ruffian, robber, or murderer.
Thug | Define Thug at Dictionary.com

I know we like continuously redefine things - but I use the word thug based on this definition. Michael Brown was a bully and a thief.

Now, that being said, these ISIS men are far, far worse than Michael Brown. I was not comparing them with each other - only pointing out the use of the word thug, which I found a bit funny considering the flack I've received using it.
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Old 08-31-2014, 11:31 AM   #144
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The important qualifiers to that definition are "cruel or vicious," neither of which really apply to the act of shoplifting and pushing a clerk out of the way to get away.

I think you can admit that by that definition, the term applies much better to Hamas militants than to an unarmed teenager.
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Old 08-31-2014, 11:43 AM   #145
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The important qualifiers to that definition are "cruel or vicious," neither of which really apply to the act of shoplifting and pushing a clerk out of the way to get away.

I think you can admit that by that definition, the term applies much better to Hamas militants than to an unarmed teenager.

Michael Brown did seem cruel and he didn't merely push the clerk out of the way. Please watch the surveillance video again. Anyway, that is my assessment and I think it's valid.

Anyway, I tend to think of men in Hamas and ISIS differently - more as barbarians (meaning uncivilized) than thugs. They are like thugs on ideological steroids.
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Old 08-31-2014, 11:47 AM   #146
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I find it very sad that people on the right have made people on the left often immune to the crimes of Hamas because people on the right won't criticize Israel and people on the left feel they have to default to the other side just to try to move the conversation back to somewhere reasonable.
I think this is true on just about every major news story. And I agree - it is very sad.
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Old 08-31-2014, 12:25 PM   #147
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What is true on just about every major news story?
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Old 08-31-2014, 01:03 PM   #148
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What is true on just about every major news story?
- that people on one side of an issue often make the other side "immune" because of the nature of their stance. This leaves of us with the two sides entrenched in "all or nothing" style debates.
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Old 08-31-2014, 02:49 PM   #149
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Please watch the surveillance video again.


I think we should chalk this up to an agree to disagree situation.
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Old 08-31-2014, 03:43 PM   #150
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- that people on one side of an issue often make the other side "immune" because of the nature of their stance. This leaves of us with the two sides entrenched in "all or nothing" style debates.

I am not sure I agree because I think a lot of political issues are simply right vs. wrong.
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