Is Palin failin' ? or OMG McCain wins with Palin !! pt. 4

[corianderstem]

Really ?

That was my reaction as first, but I'm guessing he means that "you don't have to be a doctor - you can study whatever you want."

I HOPE that's what he means. This thread is frightening.

The person responding to my post on saving money didn't want to hear it

You mean Lila? Lila "didn't want to hear it"? Good lord.

 

[anitram]

Yeah we don't get 2-3K per resident, but since it's owned by the people I don't have a problem with that. Royalties owned by the people is technically not redistributionism.

Keep telling yourself that.

Your province is the one which "owns" these profits. Much like your province is the one which "owns" profits from the taxes, interest, etc collected on its behalf.

When the province redistributes that "wealth" in the way Obama proposes then that is socialism. When the province redistributes that "wealth" so that your ass gets $500 or whatever it was, then that's acceptable to you.

Fact is, it's hypocrisy.

I have no issue with your cheque, but for heaven's sake, at least don't be a hypocrite about redistribution while your own ass is benefiting from it.

 

[purpleoscar]

Um...



So by your reasoning, my mom should be 6 feet under by now, rather than having received really good and timely care that's improved her health and extended her life.

Ridiculous.

I don't want people to be 6 feet under ground but you must be ignoring the real complaints people have about our system. There have been people dying waiting for treatment. Universal access to a line-up is not the preferred solution. That's why I linked my other post showing other countries and how they are rated. France looks pretty good. They have government coverage for catastrophies but private care to improve competition to keep costs down. I think it's a good idea to see what other countries have done. Government monopolies have their problems too.

Surely if people can't save money because they have catastrophic medical bills there is nothing they can do for saving, but my posts on saving weren't just for people who are completely sick. Consumer debt in the western world has increased to record levels and much of it has been related to entertainment. One of the favorite things people did was use home equity to fund vacations. There are people retiring with mortgages. Debt has replaced cash for many people.

 

[anitram]

purpleoscar, do you want to pay considerably higher taxes to get something more akin to a European system?

I mean, I have no problem doing that, it just doesn't strike me that it would be something you'd support.

 

[phillyfan26]

See, we're lucky here in America. We live in a free market society. Think of it as a ladder. No matter what rung you're born on, you have the exact same opportunity as everyone else to get to the top. Sure, you might say that some folks have less distance to climb than others, or that many of the lower rungs are slippery because they're covered in garbage and your high school didn't have an AP Ladder Climbing class, and the rung right above you is out of order and your landlord keeps saying he's going to fix it but he never does and all the while the guy who hangs out on the corner of your rung is constantly trying to get you high, and you're wondering if maybe you could get a little help up this ladder? Well, Mister, all the help you need is at your fingertips, if your fingertips are touching your ankles. I'm talking about your bootstraps.

You can always pull yourself up by your bootstraps or turn the lemons life has given you into lemonade.

- I Am America (And So Can You!) by Stephen Colbert

That's sort of what this thread feels like right now.

"Medical problems? Rising costs? Multiple people to pay for? Get a loan, already!"

 

[Diemen]

Surely if people can't save money because they have catastrophic medical bills there is nothing they can do for saving, but my posts on saving weren't just for people who are completely sick. Consumer debt in the western world has increased to record levels and much of it has been related to entertainment. One of the favorite things people did was use home equity to fund vacations. There are people retiring with mortgages. Debt has replaced cash for many people.

So did you just assume that Lila fit into your model when giving your "advice" to her? Because it certainly seems that way. But let's face it, that's an awfully big assumption to make about someone you don't know at all. Seems a little callous, even, to just tell her to get an education, a loan, or sell her place and move somewhere smaller when you knew absolutely nothing about her life, her spending habits or any other relevant circumstances.

 

[purpleoscar]

Keep telling yourself that.

Your province is the one which "owns" these profits. Much like your province is the one which "owns" profits from the taxes, interest, etc collected on its behalf.

When the province redistributes that "wealth" in the way Obama proposes then that is socialism. When the province redistributes that "wealth" so that your ass gets $500 or whatever it was, then that's acceptable to you.

Fact is, it's hypocrisy.

I have no issue with your cheque, but for heaven's sake, at least don't be a hypocrite about redistribution while your own ass is benefiting from it.

I don't even get 500/year. I can't even remember the last time we got a cheque. I think it was 300 something if I remember correctly. If I never got it I wouldn't be hard up. My brother makes 100,000K/year and he has money problems because he takes too many vacations and has 2 mortgages and eats out all the time, plus carrying a huge credit card balance. You think I irritate you guys; certainly not as much as him.

Even in Sweden you would have to learn to manage money properly. My point is that redistributionism has it's limits and people always ask for more. The ultimate price is higher unemployment. Not all people will benefit from saving money but there has to be a majority of the population doing that behaviour to yield good results for themselves and also so they can pay social programs. I know telling people to save money is irritating but it's what needs to happen. Governments make all kinds of promises but when they start rationing the benefits and shower pension benefits on themselves people get cynical like in New Zealand. They promised so many benefits they couldn't pay and get what? In the '90's they told many retired people that they couldn't pay all the benefits or none and many old people had to go back to work.

I'm just saying to be skeptical of promises that politicians make, including conservative ones.

 

[VintagePunk]

I don't want people to be 6 feet under ground but you must be ignoring the real complaints people have about our system. There have been people dying waiting for treatment. Universal access to a line-up is not the preferred solution. That's why I linked my other post showing other countries and how they are rated. France looks pretty good. They have government coverage for catastrophies but private care to improve competition to keep costs down. I think it's a good idea to see what other countries have done. Government monopolies have their problems too.

Surely if people can't save money because they have catastrophic medical bills there is nothing they can do for saving, but my posts on saving weren't just for people who are completely sick. Consumer debt in the western world has increased to record levels and much of it has been related to entertainment. One of the favorite things people did was use home equity to fund vacations. There are people retiring with mortgages. Debt has replaced cash for many people.

No, let's leave the rest out of it, and get back specifically to what I was talking about - health care in Canada vs. the US. You said:

The canadian system only looks good when you're not sick.

How many people do you personally know who have died while waiting for treatment? I don't know anyone, and I know a lot of people. Further, the people I am close enough with to actually discuss their medical care and treatment, all have been either treated for various ailments that have resolved, or they continue to be treated for conditions of a more chronic nature. None of them that I know of have suffered unduly because of our health care system. NONE. In addition, none have gone bankrupt, lost their homes, or have had financial hardship of any sort placed upon them as a result of being treated. NONE. Meanwhile, it's a very common situation for people in the US, whether insured or not.

So don't try to tell me that privatized health care is some magic panacea for all those ailing, because that's bullshit.

 

[purpleoscar]

So did you just assume that Lila fit into your model when giving your "advice" to her? Because it certainly seems that way. But let's face it, that's an awfully big assumption to make about someone you know nothing about. Seems a little callous, even, to just tell her to get an education, a loan, or sell her place and move somewhere smaller when you knew absolutely nothing about her life, her spending habits or any other relevant circumstances.

She was complaining about my advice that I was generally giving out. I don't know why people act like it's rocket science. The main reason why the economy tanked like it did is because people, businesses and governments got over-leveraged.

If people don't agree with my posts they can ignore them.

 

[anitram]

My point is that redistributionism has it's limits and people always ask for more.

No, it's not. You've been attacking Obama for redistributionism flat out, without any kind of nuance until all of a sudden now when you seem to realize that you're benefiting from redistribution yourself. Now it's become acceptable, but within limits. Again, unsurprising.

It's presumptuous of you to treat everybody the same way. So because you got a relatively cheap, socialist education, it should be that easy for everybody. So because some people do this or do that, everybody should. Oh to walk a mile in somebody else's shoes...

My education cost me over $100K in socialist Canada and I took on loans and I worked hard, and I was also lucky in some respects. I don't presume to tell people that my way is the right way and the only way.

 

[corianderstem]

She was complaining about my advice that I was generally giving out. I don't know why people act like it's rocket science.

You seem to be lacking in some basic compassion and empathy.

Can you not afford it? Get a loan.

 

[Diemen]

She was complaining about my advice that I was generally giving out. I don't know why people act like it's rocket science. The main reason why the economy tanked like it did is because people, businesses and governments got over-leveraged.

If people don't agree with my posts they can ignore them.

I think the point was that your advice was a bit presumptuous, and thus came across as a bit callous, and certainly not applicable to her real life situation.

 

[anitram]

The main reason why the economy tanked like it did is because people, businesses and governments got over-leveraged.

Clearly the solution for this is for Lila to leverage herself further. GET A LOAN YOU BUM!!!

 

[corianderstem]

I think the point was that your advice was a bit presumptuous, and thus came across as a bit callous, and certainly not applicable to her real life situation.

Yeah, or that. That's a nicer response than mine.

 

[purpleoscar]

GET A LOAN YOU BUM!!!

Hey I didn't call her a bum. I've seen people get a loan and get better pay and then pay it back. I used to get minimum wage and then I took on a loan and did accounting courses and now I make more and I'm debt free.

Certainly typing doesn't always register sympathy as easy as face to face so I admit I should use my emoticons more often.

 

[yolland]

I think it's high time we ended this tangent and went back to the thread topic, guys.

oscar, I don't want to pile on here, and I appreciate you meant well, but politics 100% aside, it's poor form socially to presume to give unsolicited advice to someone you don't know about where they need to cut back spending, what financial sacrifices it is and isn't worthwhile for them to make, etc. It really does come across as callous. When someone is simply expressing that they're hurting and not asking for remedies, sympathy or silence are usually the best responses.

And martha, that was unduly harsh.


Again, can we please drop this tangent and get back to the thread topic.

 

[corianderstem]

So ... Sarah Palin, huh?

Never heard of her.

 

[U2Fanatic4ever]

You seem to be lacking in some basic compassion and empathy.

Can you not afford it? Get a loan.

bingo! we have a winnah!!!!!

 

[Earnie Shavers]

We had a Sarah Palin rise onto the national scene here about a decade a go. Pauline Hanson. She wildly successful for a brief period of time. Last I saw of her, she was on Dancing With the Stars, after years of failed bids to re-start her political career. I sincerely hope Palin is destined for the same.

 

[purpleoscar]

That's sort of what this thread feels like right now.

"Medical problems? Rising costs? Multiple people to pay for? Get a loan, already!"

Come on guys, you're trying to steer the subject to make me look like the bad guy, as usual. Obviously if people actually got loans to improve their education instead of going to Cancun, North Americans and Western Europeans wouldn't have gotten into as much trouble debt wise. If people didn't try to flip houses to suckers and treat the stock market like Las Vegas they wouldn't be in trouble. There are safer investments than just stocks.

No matter what economy a person with catastrophic health problems would be in a bad situation. For everyone else who can hold down a job and is still complaining they would benefit by using a budget and start tightening their belts. What I'm prescribing is no different than what a personal finance teacher would say. I just wish people would do it more often, because I want people to succeed.

 

[corianderstem]

I think when this is all said and done, and there's been some "calming down" time in between, all this Sarah Palin business will make a fascinating book.

 

[Tiger Edge]

...that she will ban from Alaskan libraries?

 

[purpleoscar]

No, let's leave the rest out of it, and get back specifically to what I was talking about - health care in Canada vs. the US. You said:



How many people do you personally know who have died while waiting for treatment? I don't know anyone, and I know a lot of people. Further, the people I am close enough with to actually discuss their medical care and treatment, all have been either treated for various ailments and resolved, or they continue to be treated for conditions of a more chronic nature. None of them that I know of have suffered unduly because of our health care system. NONE. In addition, none have gone bankrupt, lost their homes, or have had financial hardship of any sort placed upon them as a result of being treated. NONE. Meanwhile, it's a very common situation for people in the US, whether insured or not.

So don't try to tell me that privatized health care is some magic panacea for all those ailing, because that's bullshit.

If you want to talk more see this thread VintagePunk:

http://www.u2interference.com/forum...ms-around-the-world-which-is-best-190130.html

Yolland's bringing it back on track in this thread.

 

[Earnie Shavers]

This whole election – primaries and everything – should make for a number of fascinating books from both (and all) sides. Hopefully there’s a documentary crew out there on the road every day with both campaigns as well.

 

[Utoo]

Utoo - what's is like to be a rich elitist? Please tell!

I wish I knew! With my $160,000 in med school loans and my resident's salary, all of my political leanings are rooted in the envy that I have for rich people!

 

[anitram]

I wish I knew! With my $160,000 in med school loans and my resident's salary, all of my political leanings are rooted in the envy that I have for rich people!

Once I saw the residency salary charts, it was a real easy decision to go to law school.

 

[namkcuR]

I think the fact that Sarah Palin is in the national limelight right now is, more than anything, a symptom of the division within the Republican party. I sincerely believe that it is more divided than the Democratic party ever was earlier this year. The Democratic party was divided between personalities - Hilary and Barack - but ideologically they are pretty much the same. The Republican party is seriously divided on much more than personality.

I am a liberal, and the chances of me ever voting for a Republican of any stripe is slim, but I really believe that it would be a good thing for this country if the "real" conservatives(aka the ones who aren't neocons, who aren't crazy, who aren't religious nuts) found a way to take their party back. I won't agree with them on much of anything, but at least they have rationality and logic. The amount of power these so-called neo-cons have amassed in recent years makes me feel uneasy. There are real, intelligent, thoughtful conservatives out there and the country would only be better off if they found a way to take their party back from this group of lunatics that has taken it over. I will still disagree with them on most everything, but at least I could possibly respect them and not be fearful of them in power.

 

[Lila64]

Thanks for the support guys, and you know who you are

Purple - as stated, you know nothing of my situation, and I just tried to state a few basic facts. No need for advice, tyvm. The solution to every problem is not "Get A Loan! " . Loans need to be repaid. Didn't this leveraging out & borrowing in the U.S. get us in trouble in the first place? Or howz about "further your education ". There are plenty of educated people out there right now not able to find jobs at the moment. I didn't ask you for a solution. Nothing is cut & dry or as easy as it apparently seems to be for you. My husband & I have worked hard for many years to be independent, have our own business, buy our own home, raise our child. But this economic downturn really hurts for many people. Apparently you just can't fathom that. I don't have mommy & daddy to call for financial help. They have their own issues, especially health, as VP, for one, can attest to (we've shared info on our ailing maternal units).

Just had to get that out. Sorry yolland for derailing. That will be the last of it from me in here.

\back on topic




Sarah Palin, eh?

 

[Lila64]

I wish I knew! With my $160,000 in med school loans and my resident's salary, all of my political leanings are rooted in the envy that I have for rich people!

 

[U2Fanatic4ever]

Thanks for the support guys, and you know who you are

Purple - as stated, you know nothing of my situation, and I just tried to state a few basic facts. No need for advice, tyvm. The solution to every problem is not "Get A Loan! " . Loans need to be repaid. Didn't this leveraging out & borrowing in the U.S. get us in trouble in the first place? Or howz about "further your education ". There are plenty of educated people out there right now not able to find jobs at the moment. I didn't ask you for a solution. Nothing is cut & dry or as easy as it apparently seems to be for you. My husband & I have worked hard for many years to be independent, have our own business, buy our own home, raise our child. But this economic downturn really hurts for many people. Apparently you just can't fathom that. I don't have mommy & daddy to call for financial help. They have their own issues, especially health, as VP, for one, can attest to (we've shared info on our ailing maternal units).

Just had to get that out. Sorry yolland for derailing. That will be the last of it from me in here.

\back on topic




Sarah Palin, eh?

to u my friend..


and to bring myself into this.. I am a well educated person and guess what? I FRIGGIN GOT LAID OFF from my job last week after 2 hard years there.. Now I am having to start over.. Not to mention i have a huge mortgage to pay..


sorry i derailed for a sec but had to mention this..