Is Offensive Political Violence Ever Justified?

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If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
here is an example, just this second popped up in my news feed:



Henry de Lesquen condamné pour des propos racistes - Libération



quick summary:

An avowed extreme-right racist has just been sentenced to a fine of 16,000 euros for incitement to hatred and denying crimes against humanity. Prosecutors requested a six-month suspended sentence and a fine of 15,000 euros. He was prosecuted for racist and revisionist comments published on his website and Twitter account



that's how we roll here :D





In the US we have hate crimes laws that do cover, I believe, some kids of hate speech. For example, if you were to spray paint "Kill All Muslims" on a wall, that could receive harsher punishment than if you had spray painted "Kill Bill Jones" since the targeting of a wide but clearly defined group terrorizes many people and not just one. Hate crimes, I believe, vary from state to state, and they beg some questions -- who belongs to a class that would be protected from this kind of language? What groups qualify for such a status (not all states are going to agree that LGBT should qualify, and threatening statements are just a means of religious expression and thus protected by law)?

Of course, I'm no lawyer or expert and this is just off the top of my head.
 
In the US we have hate crimes laws that do cover, I believe, some kids of hate speech. For example, if you were to spray paint "Kill All Muslims" on a wall, that could receive harsher punishment than if you had spray painted "Kill Bill Jones" since the targeting of a wide but clearly defined group terrorizes many people and not just one. Hate crimes, I believe, vary from state to state, and they beg some questions -- who belongs to a class that would be protected from this kind of language? What groups qualify for such a status (not all states are going to agree that LGBT should qualify, and threatening statements are just a means of religious expression and thus protected by law)?

Of course, I'm no lawyer or expert and this is just off the top of my head.

Irvine, in France i believe that it applies to all individuals because it is very wide-ranging, i.e. to protect against defamation, to protect a person's dignity, privacy, etc... for instance, verbally abusing someone on the street, in public, is a punishable offence, even things like insulting someone, calling them crazy is dodgy as it can be taken to be undermining to their personal dignity... basically freedom of speech but not without limits, with the aim of protecting individuals and communities, and the social order in general... i find it really interesting...

obviously enforcing it is another matter, but i guess it's nice to know that there is a kind of safety net - maybe it makes people think twice before opening their mouths... not a bad thing these days lol
 
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Is Milo Yiannopolous a Nazi, as well?

Are all members of his collegiate audiences Nazis, as well?

Or is it, perhaps, that when we grant people the moral high ground for punching "Nazis," we create a motivational structure in which people are more tempted to label their political opponents Nazis, thereby justifying violent responses to them?


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Is Milo Yiannopolous a Nazi, as well?

Are all members of his collegiate audiences Nazis, as well?

Or is it, perhaps, that when we grant people the moral high ground for punching "Nazis," we create a motivational structure in which people are more tempted to label their political opponents Nazis, thereby justifying violent responses to them?


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Indeed.
 
Black-clad protesters wearing masks threw commercial-grade fireworks and rocks at police. Some even hurled Molotov cocktails that ignited fires. They also smashed windows of the student union center on the Berkeley campus where the Yiannopoulos event was to be held.

The violent protesters tore down metal barriers, set fires near the campus bookstore and damaged the construction site of a new dorm. One woman wearing a red Trump hat was pepper sprayed in the face while being interviewed by CNN affiliate KGO.

As police dispersed the crowd from campus, a remaining group of protesters moved into downtown Berkeley and smashed windows at several local banks.
No arrests were made throughout the night.

^ unjustified political violence
 
"black clad protesters wearing masks"? Sounds like those "Black Bloc" assholes who call themselves "anarchists," show up to a protest and start shit, while the protesters just want to protest peacefully.

Signed, Seattle resident who has seen what happens when these chuckleheads show up to "protest"
 
in the end, it's a reminder that free speech is not without it's consequences. if you're going to spew hateful shit, somebody might just punch you in the face.

This. I mean, I don't think it was OK to do it either, but no one should be surprised that it happened.

"black clad protesters wearing masks"? Sounds like those "Black Bloc" assholes who call themselves "anarchists," show up to a protest and start shit, while the protesters just want to protest peacefully.

Signed, Seattle resident who has seen what happens when these chuckleheads show up to "protest"

Hate this shit, I really do. I'm glad so many protests lately have gone well, but no number of successfully peaceful protests can make up for the damage done by one bad one.

What I can't condone is the jacket and sunglasses that guy is wearing in the video halfway down the page, holy shit.
Good. Nicely done.

What exactly about this makes you so happy?
 
The post I just quoted justified that

So...yes, I suppose I think someone in here will justify it, unless I am somehow dramatically misinterpreting Vlad


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I'll clarify, I was happy about the Yiannopoulos shitshow being cancelled - not necessarily the damage.



I oppose the far right.
Right, but as the original post in this thread was arguing, how do the ends justify the means in cases like this?
 
New question:

Will Milo Yiannopolous be more popular or less popular after this riot than he was before?

There is an objectively right answer.


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Right, but as the original post in this thread was arguing, how do the ends justify the means in cases like this?

See my post prior to this one. He's a man known for attacking and denigrating vulnerable people, it's in the best interest to limit his platform, make him second guess his actions if possible.

New question:

Will Milo Yiannopolous be more popular or less popular after this riot than he was before?

There is an objectively right answer.


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I don't think the answer is as simple as you think. Do you think Richard Spencer is more popular after having been punched twice?

So its OK to disrupt when its the opposite side? So much for the first amendment.

I don't care for the far right.
 
UC warns campus group: Yiannopoulos event could target students - SFGate

I wanted to add that Yiannopoulos is prone to targeting vulnerable individuals during his university showings, likely putting their livelihoods in danger via his supporters. I think that justifies shutting him down.

Milo is a gay European who's partner is black. He rails against the dangers of Sharia and the left.

Actually most events I've seen footage of Milo it was the left being the violent ones not the supporters. Also Milo has tried to engage liberal audience members who interupt him and in the end they look like idiots because they can't engage with him so they just walk out, flip him the bird etc.
 
Vlad


The first amendment is for everyone....When you try to shut that down that my friend is called Fascism....Something the left seems really keen on calling Trump & his supporters.
 
See my post prior to this one. He's a man known for attacking and denigrating vulnerable people, it's in the best interest to limit his platform, make him second guess his actions if possible.
But doing so in a destructive manner hurts peaceful protestors causes. Would you not agree?
 
Milo is a gay European who's partner is black. He rails against the dangers of Sharia and the left.

Actually most events I've seen footage of Milo it was the left being the violent ones not the supporters. Also Milo has tried to engage liberal audience members who interupt him and in the end they look like idiots because they can't engage with him so they just walk out, flip him the bird etc.

Is this the new 'I have friends who are black/gay/etc.'? I know full well who Milo is, he's a man in his 30s who behaves and struts around like a 15 year old who thinks he's edgy for wearing an Iron Cross necklace.
 
"black clad protesters wearing masks"? Sounds like those "Black Bloc" assholes who call themselves "anarchists," show up to a protest and start shit, while the protesters just want to protest peacefully.

Signed, Seattle resident who has seen what happens when these chuckleheads show up to "protest"

Good point, coriander. And to the extent that literal 'bomb-throwers' may have arrived outside of the UCB community, President Trump should have held onto his tweet questioning the school's federal dollars. Actually, I'd like the president to hold up on the majority of his tweets :slant:

The CNN article mentioned no arrests have been made. I'm wondering when arrests start to become appropriate when people and property are being affected like last evening. Especially if it's happening time and again in the town.
 
Vlad





The first amendment is for everyone....When you try to shut that down that my friend is called Fascism....Something the left seems really keen on calling Trump & his supporters.



So what are your thoughts of when Trump banned the EPA and other government agencies from all media, shutting down information to the tax paying public?
 
Vlad


The first amendment is for everyone....When you try to shut that down that my friend is called Fascism....Something the left seems really keen on calling Trump & his supporters.

You have no idea what fascism is. Hint: it's not synonymous with something you don't like.

But doing so in a destructive manner hurts peaceful protestors causes. Would you not agree?

To a degree, yes. I don't think destruction is particularly necessary, but things can get out of control based on other factors in these situations.
 
So what are your thoughts of when Trump banned the EPA and other government agencies from all media, shutting down information to the tax paying public?

If the information is not supposed to be discussed then its not supposed to be discussed.

There is a minor difference between say protesting against a policy as a citizen and actually working for the govt. That would mean people like Snowden and Wikileaks are protected under the first amendment too.
 
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