Is Offensive Political Violence Ever Justified? - Page 3 - U2 Feedback

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Old 01-31-2017, 10:29 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by mama cass View Post
here is an example, just this second popped up in my news feed:



Henry de Lesquen condamné pour des propos racistes - Libération



quick summary:

An avowed extreme-right racist has just been sentenced to a fine of 16,000 euros for incitement to hatred and denying crimes against humanity. Prosecutors requested a six-month suspended sentence and a fine of 15,000 euros. He was prosecuted for racist and revisionist comments published on his website and Twitter account



that's how we roll here




In the US we have hate crimes laws that do cover, I believe, some kids of hate speech. For example, if you were to spray paint "Kill All Muslims" on a wall, that could receive harsher punishment than if you had spray painted "Kill Bill Jones" since the targeting of a wide but clearly defined group terrorizes many people and not just one. Hate crimes, I believe, vary from state to state, and they beg some questions -- who belongs to a class that would be protected from this kind of language? What groups qualify for such a status (not all states are going to agree that LGBT should qualify, and threatening statements are just a means of religious expression and thus protected by law)?

Of course, I'm no lawyer or expert and this is just off the top of my head.
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Old 01-31-2017, 12:56 PM   #32
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The 'punch a Nazi' meme: what are the ethics of punching Nazis? - The Guardian
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Old 02-01-2017, 03:12 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
In the US we have hate crimes laws that do cover, I believe, some kids of hate speech. For example, if you were to spray paint "Kill All Muslims" on a wall, that could receive harsher punishment than if you had spray painted "Kill Bill Jones" since the targeting of a wide but clearly defined group terrorizes many people and not just one. Hate crimes, I believe, vary from state to state, and they beg some questions -- who belongs to a class that would be protected from this kind of language? What groups qualify for such a status (not all states are going to agree that LGBT should qualify, and threatening statements are just a means of religious expression and thus protected by law)?

Of course, I'm no lawyer or expert and this is just off the top of my head.
Irvine, in France i believe that it applies to all individuals because it is very wide-ranging, i.e. to protect against defamation, to protect a person's dignity, privacy, etc... for instance, verbally abusing someone on the street, in public, is a punishable offence, even things like insulting someone, calling them crazy is dodgy as it can be taken to be undermining to their personal dignity... basically freedom of speech but not without limits, with the aim of protecting individuals and communities, and the social order in general... i find it really interesting...

obviously enforcing it is another matter, but i guess it's nice to know that there is a kind of safety net - maybe it makes people think twice before opening their mouths... not a bad thing these days lol
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Old 02-02-2017, 05:17 PM   #34
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Berkeley cancels Milo Yiannopoulos talk after violent protests - CNN.com
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Old 02-02-2017, 05:36 PM   #35
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No its not because where is the line? Justified by who? The one committing it?
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Old 02-02-2017, 05:39 PM   #36
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Is Milo Yiannopolous a Nazi, as well?

Are all members of his collegiate audiences Nazis, as well?

Or is it, perhaps, that when we grant people the moral high ground for punching "Nazis," we create a motivational structure in which people are more tempted to label their political opponents Nazis, thereby justifying violent responses to them?


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Old 02-02-2017, 05:51 PM   #37
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Is Milo Yiannopolous a Nazi, as well?

Are all members of his collegiate audiences Nazis, as well?

Or is it, perhaps, that when we grant people the moral high ground for punching "Nazis," we create a motivational structure in which people are more tempted to label their political opponents Nazis, thereby justifying violent responses to them?


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Indeed.
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Old 02-02-2017, 06:01 PM   #38
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Black-clad protesters wearing masks threw commercial-grade fireworks and rocks at police. Some even hurled Molotov cocktails that ignited fires. They also smashed windows of the student union center on the Berkeley campus where the Yiannopoulos event was to be held.
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The violent protesters tore down metal barriers, set fires near the campus bookstore and damaged the construction site of a new dorm. One woman wearing a red Trump hat was pepper sprayed in the face while being interviewed by CNN affiliate KGO.
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As police dispersed the crowd from campus, a remaining group of protesters moved into downtown Berkeley and smashed windows at several local banks.
No arrests were made throughout the night.
^ unjustified political violence
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Old 02-02-2017, 06:01 PM   #39
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Good. Nicely done.
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Old 02-02-2017, 06:04 PM   #40
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"black clad protesters wearing masks"? Sounds like those "Black Bloc" assholes who call themselves "anarchists," show up to a protest and start shit, while the protesters just want to protest peacefully.

Signed, Seattle resident who has seen what happens when these chuckleheads show up to "protest"
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Old 02-02-2017, 06:21 PM   #41
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Good. Nicely done.

I'm dying to debate someone on this


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Old 02-02-2017, 06:24 PM   #42
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in the end, it's a reminder that free speech is not without it's consequences. if you're going to spew hateful shit, somebody might just punch you in the face.
This. I mean, I don't think it was OK to do it either, but no one should be surprised that it happened.

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Originally Posted by corianderstem View Post
"black clad protesters wearing masks"? Sounds like those "Black Bloc" assholes who call themselves "anarchists," show up to a protest and start shit, while the protesters just want to protest peacefully.

Signed, Seattle resident who has seen what happens when these chuckleheads show up to "protest"
Hate this shit, I really do. I'm glad so many protests lately have gone well, but no number of successfully peaceful protests can make up for the damage done by one bad one.

What I can't condone is the jacket and sunglasses that guy is wearing in the video halfway down the page, holy shit.
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Good. Nicely done.
What exactly about this makes you so happy?
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Old 02-02-2017, 06:24 PM   #43
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I'm dying to debate someone on this


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And are you thinking someone in here is going to justify this?
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Old 02-02-2017, 06:27 PM   #44
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Is Offensive Political Violence Ever Justified?

The post I just quoted justified that

So...yes, I suppose I think someone in here will justify it, unless I am somehow dramatically misinterpreting Vlad


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Old 02-02-2017, 06:31 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Caleb8844 View Post
The post I just quoted justified that

So...yes, I suppose I think someone in here will justify it, unless I am somehow dramatically misinterpreting Vlad


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Maybe, I'm not sure how serious he was
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