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Old 01-24-2017, 03:34 PM   #16
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Punch white supremacists so they're afraid to go outside. Richard Spencer is now. Good. He should be afraid to go outside.

This isn't a guy using his right to free speech to argue about the tax code. He's calling for genocide, and people who are sympathetic to that viewpoint have already been allowed into our government.

Stop it in its tracks. It's the morally responsible thing to do.
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Old 01-24-2017, 06:42 PM   #17
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It is always good and correct to use force against Nazis.
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Old 01-24-2017, 06:46 PM   #18
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The Limo that was torched by protestors in DC belonged to a Muslim immigrant to use a business. Ironic outcome.
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Old 01-24-2017, 07:01 PM   #19
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I can't say that I condone punching someone in the face for exercising their constitutionally protected right to free speech.
see, that's what i never can get my head round, how the US doesn't make a distinction between free speech and hate speech - here in France we have very strong laws against hate speech, i.e. inspiring racial hatred for instance, it's a prosecutable offence, and i really can't see that that's a bad thing - some things should be recognised as being unacceptable and having no place in society
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Old 01-24-2017, 07:28 PM   #20
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The Limo that was torched by protestors in DC belonged to a Muslim immigrant to use a business. Ironic outcome.

Fact fact?

Or alt fact?


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Old 01-24-2017, 07:30 PM   #21
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see, that's what i never can get my head round, how the US doesn't make a distinction between free speech and hate speech - here in France we have very strong laws against hate speech, i.e. inspiring racial hatred for instance, it's a prosecutable offence, and i really can't see that that's a bad thing - some things should be recognised as being unacceptable and having no place in society

I just don't see how one can draw that line though without making it completely exploitable?


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Old 01-24-2017, 11:34 PM   #22
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A guy from various Boston punk bands that i am a fan of got his social media blown the fuck up by neo nazis threatening him the past few days wrongly accusing him of being the puncher.
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Old 01-25-2017, 05:56 AM   #23
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I just don't see how one can draw that line though without making it completely exploitable?


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you just have to have laws specifically defining what "hate speech" is

it's been a cultural eye-opener for me living in France, learning what kind of things are perceived as acceptable or unacceptable to say... i can only see it as a positive thing...
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Old 01-25-2017, 06:12 AM   #24
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The Limo that was torched by protestors in DC belonged to a Muslim immigrant to use a business. Ironic outcome.
Please explain why this is ironic...
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Old 01-25-2017, 08:51 AM   #25
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I just don't see how one can draw that line though without making it completely exploitable?
Well plenty of comparable western democracies do it without much fanfare so it's obviously possible.
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Old 01-25-2017, 09:08 AM   #26
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Well plenty of comparable western democracies do it without much fanfare so it's obviously possible.

I just see our politicians(both sides) completely abusing it, but maybe I'm just not familiar with how these laws are written.

So Cass mentioned if it "incites violence"; so there was a story months ago about 2 men attacking random Hispanics and claiming Trump inspired them, would that be grounds to go after Trump?


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Old 01-25-2017, 09:21 AM   #27
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So Cass mentioned if it "incites violence"; so there was a story months ago about 2 men attacking random Hispanics and claiming Trump inspired them, would that be grounds to go after Trump?
I can only speak for Canadian law, but no, this would not meet the threshold. The threshold is very high, and the prosecution must pass something like a 7-prong test before a case even becomes prosecutable.

In the Canadian instance, there would be many issues. Number one, Trump did not clearly target an identifiable group for violence (saying that he wants to deport Mexicans or that they are rapists does not incite violence against an identifiable group). The other thing is you have to make a deliberate statement of hate speech, not one that is careless or off-the-cuff which basically would get him off in the majority of instances. Oh in the heat of the moment, he said something stupid in a rally, etc. There are other reasons as well.
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Old 01-25-2017, 09:23 AM   #28
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I can only speak for Canadian law, but no, this would not meet the threshold. The threshold is very high, and the prosecution must pass something like a 7-prong test before a case even becomes prosecutable.



In the Canadian instance, there would be many issues. Number one, Trump did not clearly target an identifiable group for violence (saying that he wants to deport Mexicans or that they are rapists does not incite violence against an identifiable group). The other thing is you have to make a deliberate statement of hate speech, not one that is careless or off-the-cuff which basically would get him off in the majority of instances. Oh in the heat of the moment, he said something stupid in a rally, etc. There are other reasons as well.

Gotcha, thanks.


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Old 01-25-2017, 10:05 AM   #29
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I can only speak for Canadian law, but no, this would not meet the threshold. The threshold is very high, and the prosecution must pass something like a 7-prong test before a case even becomes prosecutable.

In the Canadian instance, there would be many issues. Number one, Trump did not clearly target an identifiable group for violence (saying that he wants to deport Mexicans or that they are rapists does not incite violence against an identifiable group). The other thing is you have to make a deliberate statement of hate speech, not one that is careless or off-the-cuff which basically would get him off in the majority of instances. Oh in the heat of the moment, he said something stupid in a rally, etc. There are other reasons as well.
So Richard Spencer would be in jail, eh?
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Old 01-25-2017, 11:43 AM   #30
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I just don't see how one can draw that line though without making it completely exploitable?


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here is an example, just this second popped up in my news feed:

Henry de Lesquen condamné pour des propos racistes - Libération

quick summary:
An avowed extreme-right racist has just been sentenced to a fine of 16,000 euros for incitement to hatred and denying crimes against humanity. Prosecutors requested a six-month suspended sentence and a fine of 15,000 euros. He was prosecuted for racist and revisionist comments published on his website and Twitter account

that's how we roll here
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