Is Narcissism Really That Prevalent?

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jeevey said:
But the narcissism trend continues. So we have lots and lots of people who feel unreasonably confident about themselves but have never really pushed themselves to the limit and have no idea what they are actually capable of.
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This is a bit of a platitude. Who are these unreasonably confident people you're talking about?
 
Jive Turkey said:
This is a bit of a platitude. Who are these unreasonably confident people you're talking about?
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I have to agree with Jive. I am still an Army Reserve officer and I see new kids come into service on a monthly basis - some are confident, most aren't. These are kids in their late teens.

My civilian career is in IT, so I do see a few more prima donna's show up, but it is only a matter of time until they're put into their place by more senior engineers.

Since Generation X, we have learned to adapt to rapidly changing trends (from t
 
LOl - sorry about that. It seems the NSA had a few questions about the thread on the Holographic Universe - they wanted to make sure people couldn't send encrypted emails through the various wormholes.

Actually - I was going to add something else and forgot to delete that last part before I hit "post" - then I left.
 
Jive Turkey said:
This is a bit of a platitude. Who are these unreasonably confident people you're talking about?
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It's a bit of a platitude based on observing reporting on the subject for the past few years. Here are returns one through five of a google search of the words, "narcissism, rise". Jean Twenge is a prominent researcher and author on the subject; one of the links is a supportive profile of her book, another is critical.

The Internet 'Narcissism Epidemic' - Bill Davidow - The Atlantic

Narcissism Is On the Rise In America - Newsweek and The Daily Beast

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/06/science/seeing-narcissists-everywhere.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Me, me, me! America’s ‘Narcissism Epidemic’ - today > books - booksmiscellaneous - TODAY.com

Dr. Jim Taylor: Narcissism: On the Rise in America?
 
If you're trying to bombard me with an avalanche of research, 5 articles citing the exact same study is a bit dishonest. The findings of a single study does not make for overwhelming proof.

And still, where are all these people that haven't pushed themselves to their limit to your satisfaction?

Not to mention, reading through those articles, it seems Ms Twenge is being more than liberal with her application of the term 'narcissism'
 
I'm doing the opposite of bombarding you with an avalanche of research- I'm saying that I made a bit of a platitude based on a general awareness of a public conversation about evidence of an increase in narcissim.

My personal experience is that unless kids evidence serious giftedness, our culture doesn't support the kind of drive and concentration that real mastery requires. If they are lucky enough to be very gifted, to have someone notice their gifts and find the financial support needed, than we can justify the time. In my observation that seems to happen more with althetic giftedness than other sorts. Otherwise, America generally prefers young people to do many different things rather than one thing a lot- the proverial soccer mom running her kids to different lessons every day while dong three sports a year. Not to mention the sheer amount of time that school demands and the way it is structured with frequent shifts in activity. We just don't live in a culture that privileges self motivated, solitary sustained attention to a demanding task.
 
jeevey said:
I'm doing the opposite of bombarding you with an avalanche of research- I'm saying that I made a bit of a platitude based on a general awareness of a public conversation about evidence of an increase in narcissim.
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If I misread the sarcasm in it, I apologize.
 
....my sarcasm detector is going off again.

Maybe I just need to change the batteries
 
Maybe what the internet needs is a sincerity smiley. Really, that wasn't snark.

Wait, wait, there already is punctuation for this. 8 New and Necessary Punctuation Marks - CollegeHumor Article It's called the sinceriod and I really like it. Lets try this again.



Well, that's very nice of you.




You see the problem here. We're all so drenched in snark that it's literally impossible to read the sinceriod as sincere. But really, I meant that.
 
That punctuation is too small :( I'm sure to look past it in a fit of too-quick-to-respond.

I think you might be right about being drenched in snark. How about a reset? Deal?

And thanks for the sincerity .
 
tumblr_mq2f0fseMi1sxjjgqo1_r2_500.gif
 
maycocksean said:
I was curious as to whether you and your wife had that conversation before or after she completed the marathon, because I can tell you, at least in my experience there is nothing narcissistic about completing a marathon.

It's way too difficult to be simply about the "awards and entertainment." When I was out there at mile 18 or 19, "the badge of honor" was the last thing on my mind. Being justifiably proud of accomplishing something that took every ounce of willpower you had, I don't think is unreasonable. So while, I don't have the 26.2 sticker on my car, I sure don't fault those people who do.
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We discussed this prior to the marathon. Running 26.2 miles (or accomplishing any self-set challenge) is not narcissistic. People set, work towards and accomplish such challenges all the time.

The doctor’s comment suggested that the event itself (with its fanfare, awards, etc.) fed the narcissistic tendencies of many participants. The difference between the physical act of running 26.2 miles and participation in the “Event” known as a marathon.

I see similar parallels with charitable galas. Anyone can make a donation, but there are those who need the stroking (fine dining, pictures on the society pages, etc.) as the quid pro quo for the giving.
 
i've wondered this a bit about Diana Nyad's swim.

i find it mind-boggling that someone swam for 52 hours. i couldn't stay awake for 52 hours.

what drives someone to do this?
 
Interesting research, not about narcissism as a disorder but about related personality traits on an increase among college graduates.

DURHAM, N.H. – As thousands of Generation Y college graduates flood the workforce this spring, the nation’s employers may want to brace themselves for a new crop of entitlement-minded workers.
Research conducted by Paul Harvey, assistant professor of management at the University of New Hampshire, shows that members of Generation Y are more entitlement-minded than older workers. For employers, that means more employees who feel entitled to undeserved preferential treatment, who are more prone to get into workplace conflicts and who are less likely to enjoy their job.

“Managers have reported a lot of problems associated with this – primarily that these employees have unrealistic expectations and a strong resistance toward accepting negative feedback. Basically entitlement involves having an inflated view of oneself, and managers are finding that younger employees are often very resistant to anything that doesn’t involve praise and rewards,” Harvey says.
According to Harvey, people who feel entitled to preferential treatment more often than not exhibit self-serving attributional styles -- the tendency to take credit for good outcomes and blame others when things go wrong. And people with self-serving attributional styles are less happy in their jobs and more apt to cause conflict in the workplace, especially with their supervisors.

So what should older workers do when faced with younger co-workers who have a tendency to take credit for work they didn’t do? Harvey says one way to help combat a coworker with a self-serving bias is to document and collect evidence that may be useful in establishing who is responsible for positive and negative results.

UNH Prof. Paul Harvey discusses entitlement and Generation Y from UNH News.


“If you fear a coworker might take credit for something good you’ve done, it’s smart to keep evidence of your involvement in the outcome. For example, an email from a stakeholder thanking you for your effort or performance on a task that can be used to refute the claims of a coworker trying to take credit for what you have accomplished,” Harvey says.
“It’s also important to remember that even relatively objective people often have a slight self-serving bias. So before engaging a coworker for blaming you for a problem you feel you did not create or taking credit for a good outcome you think you are responsible for, it might be smart to make sure you’re being totally honest with yourself, too,” he says.

Entitlement is often thought of as a component of narcissism. Narcissists believe that they are worthy of a certain level of respect and rewards, and they are determined to get that level of respect and reward, no matter what.
“A great source of frustration for people with a strong sense of entitlement is unmet expectations. They often feel entitled to a level of respect and rewards that aren’t in line with their actual ability and effort levels, and so they might not get the level of respect and rewards they are expecting. They feel cheated and might try to obtain rewards they feel they are entitled to through unconventional, unethical means. This might involve behaviors like manipulating performance data to achieve higher bonuses, which have been linked to many of the problems we’ve seen recently,” Harvey says.
Harvey advises supervisors to remove as much ambiguity from situations as possible. To the extent possible, document who does what so that credit and blame can be accurately determined. He also suggests supervisors make sure everyone understands the organizational structure so that they understand who is responsible for what. He cautions, however, that this is easier said than done.
“In a recent study we found that managers who tried to correct entitlement perceptions through high levels of feedback and communication were often unsuccessful. In fact, in many cases these techniques actually appeared to make the problem slightly worse,” Harvey says.
And when it comes to new hires, Harvey suggests employers screen their entitlement levels. There are a number of ways employers could screen the entitlement levels of would-be hires, such as through surveys or interview questions, he says. For example, a hiring manager could ask a prospective employee the following: “Do you feel you are generally superior to your coworkers/classmates/etc., and if so, why?”
“If the candidate answers yes to the first part but struggles with the ‘why,’ there may be an entitlement issue. This is because entitlement perceptions are often based on an unfounded sense of superiority and deservingness. They’ve been led to believe, perhaps through overzealous self-esteem building exercises in their youth, that they are somehow special but often lack any real justification for this belief,” Harvey says.
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nbcrusader said:
I see similar parallels with charitable galas. Anyone can make a donation, but there are those who need the stroking (fine dining, pictures on the society pages, etc.) as the quid pro quo for the giving.
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I think this has more to do with many being reluctant to give to charity. If there is some payoff - gala, bowling, marathon, etc. - then they'll do it. Meaning, "what's in it for me?" rather than the "hey look at me being so good!"
 
Irvine511 said:
i've wondered this a bit about Diana Nyad's swim.

i find it mind-boggling that someone swam for 52 hours. i couldn't stay awake for 52 hours.

what drives someone to do this?
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The human instinct to be competitive?

ETA: Yeah, maybe there's some narcissistic elements to that kind of competitiveness, because there aren't a swarm of people doing what she did. If she was in the Olympics or some local swim race, I would call that basic competitive instinct. But her swim was more than that
 
I'm analyzing the narcissistic issue a lot myself. Sometimes I think we are too quick to declare someone or some act narcissistic, yet we all have that same tendency ourselves. Some may look down at anyone who is slightly narcissistic (social media, praising themselves for reaching goals), but there's some narcissism there too because they might be thinking, "I'm better than those people".

Humans are naturally competitive - always have been, always will. Narcissism can come from that. But if it's the type of narcissism that makes you impossible to be around and you are unable to have much empathy, then it is a serious problem. Occasional self-congratulation is not narcissism.
 
on the Gen Y/Millennial narcissism/specialness thing:

Fuck You. I'm Gen Y, and I Don't Feel Special or Entitled, Just Poor.

A bunch of you people on Facebook and Twitter keep sharing a Huff Po stick-figure thing about how Gen Y is unhappy because they’re unrealistic delusional ingrates.

You know, this thing.

If you wrote that, or you liked that, carefully consider these thoughts:

1) These are weirdly contrived generational categories, too weird for such black-and-white reasoning. I’ve always thought myself more tail-end-of-Gen-X in temperament, age, and outlook. But '77-'79 is a sociologically ambiguous no-man's land, and we typically get lumped in with the millennials, especially when it comes to money matters.

2) Go f**k yourselves.

You have no idea about student debt, underemployment, life-long renting. “Stop feeling special” is some shitty advice. I don’t feel special or entitled, just poor. The only thing that makes me special is I have more ballooning debt than you. I’ve tempered the hell out of my expectations of work, and I’ve exceeded those expectations crazily to have one interesting, exciting damned career that’s culminated in some leadership roles for national publications. And I’m still poor and in debt and worked beyond the point where it can be managed with my health and my desire to actually see the son I’m helping to raise.

Younger journos see me as a success story and ask my advice, and I feel like a fraud, because I’m doing what I love, and it makes me completely miserable and exhausts me.

Last weekend my baby had a fever, and we contemplated taking him to the ER, and my first thought was - had to be - “Oh God, that could wipe out our bank account! Maybe he can just ride it out?” Our status in this Big Financial Game had sucked my basic humanity towards my child away for a minute. If I wish for something better, is that me simply being entitled and delusional?

There *are* delusions at play here, but they are not our generation's. They play out as two contradictory lectures that we are told, simultaneously, by our monied elders:

1) This is AMERICA. Everybody does better than their parents!

2) This is AMERICA. Suck it up and quit bitching that you're not as well-off as your parents!

The latter maxim lurks in the heart of every critique of millennials. It assumes that if we're worse off than previous generations, the fault is ours, and our complaints are so much white whine. We should shut up and be content, because we do work less than our forebears, and spend more time enraptured by our own navels, trying to divine some life-affirming creative direction in them.

But there's nothing for us to suck up, really. As a rule, our parents did end up much more dedicated to their careers than we have. But as a rule, they were laid off less. They didn't intern or work as independent contractors. They got full medical. They were occasionally permitted to adopt magical unicorn-like money-granting creatures called "pensions." Or, barring that, they accumulated a huger 401K to cash out before the Great Recession, because they saved more. And they saved more because the costs of college, of kid care, of health care, of doing business and staying alive and buying groceries and staying connected, were far less than they are today. They could raise a family on one salary if necessary.

They had room to advance and buy things. Yes, even the creatives. I once listened to a professor, who is in his sixties, read us the first published piece he'd been paid for, in the late 1970s. A thousand words or so. The rate, he says, was something like two bucks a word. That's four times what the Village Voice pays today, even for an award-winning investigative cover story. It's geometrically greater than what most writers can earn today writing daily brilliance for nationally renowned publications online. And writing daily brilliance, which many of them do, is hard goddamned work.

If I had a dollar for every older writer or editor who confided to me that "I don't know how young writers do it today; I certainly couldn't," I could buy every property that publishes them.

So no, we shan't be doing as well as our parents, and no, we shan't be shutting up about it. If anything, those of us who have been cowed into silence because college-educated poor problems aren't real poor problems should shed our fears and start talking about just how hard it really is out there, man.

This state of affairs does not exist because we're entitled and have simply declined to work as hard as the people that birthed us. American workers have changed from generation to generation: Since 1979, the alleged Dawn of the Millennial, the average U.S. worker has endured a 75 percent increase in productivity...while real wages stayed flat.

Those changes are blips on a timeline compared to the massive, psyche-altering vicissitudes of American Industry, its self-Taylorization to the point where profit-making and shareholder value have been maximized in ways that Morgans and Carnegies and Vanderbilts couldn't even have conceived — in ways that have stiffed workers and the families they can no longer afford. Since '79, the top 1 percent of earners in America has seen their income quadruple.

So take your “revise your expectations! check your ego!” Horatio Alger bullshit, and stuff it. While you’re at it, stuff this economy. Not this GDP, not this unemployment level: this economy, this financial system that establishes complete social and political control over us, that conditions us to believe that we don’t deserve basic shelter and clothing and food and education and existence-sustaining medical care unless we throw our lives into vassalage and hope, pray, that the lords don’t fuck with our retirements or our coverages. (Maybe if we’re extra productive, someday they’ll do a 4o1K match again, like our ancestors used to talk about!)

Take the system that siphons off our capacities for human flourishing in hopes that we get thrown a little coin of the realm in return. Take that system and blow it up, you cowards.

Oh, and also, stop thinking that you’re special.

Fuck You. I'm Gen Y, and I Don't Feel Special or Entitled, Just Poor.
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I relate a lot to Irvine's post. My skills and interests fit right into the creative and media fields, but it is so hard to get a full time job with benefits there. Those fields are increasingly relying on freelancers, and are paying them much less than 5 years ago. There are some websites that won't pay you a dime for your work, and I mean work! Not some fluff 250 word piece. There are also veteran freelancers who aren't being paid. There was a case earlier this year where The Atlantic asked an established freelancer if they could publish part of his article on North Korea, but they weren't going to pay him at all. He ranted about it on his blog and it started a brief debate on whether payment is more important than exposure.

So yeah, if a Millennial who works in media or any creative field, and has that entitlement attitude, they may have a right to that attitude.

I also believe anyone who looks down at younger generations for acting entitled is oblivious to how difficult it is out there for some people. The job market has radically changed in the last 5 years and there are many still trying to make sense of it and adjust to it. Just because you're not affected does not mean the problem does not exist.
 
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