Is Lust Sinful? (--> split)

[80sU2isBest]

Sure. I'm saying there isn't just "allow" and "not allow." It's not a "thinking and fantasizing every moment" or "completely block it out" kind of issue. Maybe I fantasize about a person once. Or maybe randomly a couple of times but still rarely. There are varying degrees.

Okey doke, I understand what you're saying. Thanks for that.

Also, just as an FYI, my name's not Phil, the user name is a reference to me being a Phillies fan.

Yeah, I do call you Phil all the time, don't I? To be honest I don't know if I do it because it somehow sticks in my head that your name is indeed Phil, or if I do it as a short version of PhilsFan. Or maybe, I'm very oblivious and didn't even notice the Fan part. I honestly don't know.

 

[Pearl]

Out of curiosity, does anyone here believe that if a woman dresses a certain way, it is her fault that a man lusts for her? Or should the man take full responsibility for his actions rather than blame her?

 

[corianderstem]

Pearl, that question was on my mind as well. I've read articles or columns that were posted in Christian magazines or on Christian sites, where men were more or less pleading with women to dress modestly so they wouldn't lust after them.

As you can imagine, I had many ranty thoughts about that line of thinking.

 

[Jive Turkey]

You girls need to take responsibility for giving guys boners

 

[ryancoke71]

Out of curiosity, does anyone here believe that if a woman dresses a certain way, it is her fault that a man lusts for her? Or should the man take full responsibility for his actions rather than blame her?

Good question. I think it is the man's fault. I don't think we should have to censor the way we dress!

 

[mama cass]

in my own home and garden i dress how i want, plus i work from home, so that pretty much means i get to dress how i want all day long, but to be honest when i go out and about i am actually careful what i wear as i like to go about my business peacefully, don't like to attract attention or anything and hate any hassle/oggling whatever...

i am happiest and safest when i'm doing horsey stuff - scruffy horsey gear is a total lust deterrent lol)

i don't feel i am censoring how i dress though - i'm quite shy really and personally prefer to cover up in public anyway... but at home i am happy to be a slut

 

[Jive Turkey]

As long as there is no harassment there is no 'fault'

 

[Irvine511]

Pearl, that question was on my mind as well. I've read articles or columns that were posted in Christian magazines or on Christian sites, where men were more or less pleading with women to dress modestly so they wouldn't lust after them.

not that i think anyone in here is suggesting this, but this seems to be to be the end result of a patriarchal, literalist interpretation of some religious dictates.

 

[Pearl]

...a patriarchal, literalist interpretation of some religious dictates.

I agree.

 

[corianderstem]

I would clarify that it seemed to me like the articles/columns in question were coming from what I assumed to be a pretty small minority of Christian men. Very extreme.

I just find it interesting when you hear people (both men and women) say things like men can't help themselves when they start thinking lustful thoughts. Frankly, it's insulting to men to suggest they can't control their own emotions.

And there's not too far a distance between "that girl in the tank top is making me think lustful thoughts, she shouldn't wear that in public" and "she shouldn't have been wearing that if she didn't want to get raped."

 

[80sU2isBest]

Good question. I think it is the man's fault. I don't think we should have to censor the way we dress!

I think that the situation is a little different with teenagers. While it is still ultimately the male's responsibility to control himself, the teenage male years are so confusing and hormone driven, it's a lot more difficult for them to control their thoughts. I'm not putting blame on the teenage girls, but I think some of them could really help the matter by dressing more appropriately. But then again, most of these girls are just victim of society's pressure to conform to that "perfect, sexy" image. I think there likely are some teenage girls who purposely try to titilate and tease, but I think most are just trying to fit in and be "in style".

While not directly rated to "dressing sexy", "Dove: Onslaught", about the society's and the media's fascination with their image sexy perfection, is my favorite PSA ever:

YouTube - Dove Onslaught HIGH DEFINITION

 

[yolland]

As long as there is no harassment there is no 'fault'

This was pretty much my reaction as well.

I'd probably be more troubled by these men's attitudes towards their own sexuality than their attitudes towards women, frankly.

 

[Pearl]

I think that the situation is a little different with teenagers. While it is still ultimately the male's responsibility to control himself, the teenage male years are so confusing and hormone driven, it's a lot more difficult for them to control their thoughts. I'm not putting blame on the teenage girls, but I think some of them could really help the matter by dressing more appropriately. But then again, most of these girls are just victim of society's pressure to conform to that "perfect, sexy" image. I think there likely are some teenage girls who purposely try to titilate and tease, but I think most are just trying to fit in and be "in style".

OK, I agree that society puts to much of an emphasis on women of all ages to look sexy. But you didn't really address my question, 80s. I asked if anyone believes a man (a grown one, not a teenage boy) who feels lust towards a woman dressed in a sexy way, should he blame her or himself? The reason why I ask this is because there's a lot of men (and women) out there of various religions and beliefs who put fault on the woman when something happens to her.

 

[BoMac]

Out of curiosity, does anyone here believe that if a woman dresses a certain way, it is her fault that a man lusts for her? Or should the man take full responsibility for his actions rather than blame her?

There are so many things about a woman that I love that the way they dress is probably the least likely thing that makes me lust for someone. And, being the hot-blooded Italian male that I am, I "lust" for women quite frequently. It could because of anything, really: the way they smile, their personality, their laugh, their intelligence, their overall beauty, etc.

I couldn't care less what they wear, but that's just me. Everyone is different in this regard.

And by the way, I haven't been following this thread, but when I say "lust", I'm using it in a way to mean when I see women I think 'Oh, she's hot', or 'she's pretty', or 'she looks sweet', or 'I like her because of...'

 

[80sU2isBest]

OK, I agree that society puts to much of an emphasis on women of all ages to look sexy. But you didn't really address my question, 80s. I asked if anyone believes a man (a grown one, not a teenage boy) who feels lust towards a woman dressed in a sexy way, should he blame her or himself? The reason why I ask this is because there's a lot of men (and women) out there of various religions and beliefs who put fault on the woman when something happens to her.

I did answer your question. I said that the male bears responsibility for his own lusts, and that in teenagers', girls, while not to blame, should dress more appropriately to help the guys out.

 

[80sU2isBest]

And by the way, I haven't been following this thread, but when I say "lust", I'm using it in a way to mean when I see women I think 'Oh, she's hot', or 'she's pretty', or 'she looks sweet', or 'I like her because of...'

Wow, if that's lust, it's not wrong at all. I call that appreciation and attraction.

 

[BoMac]

Wow, if that's lust, it's not wrong at all. I call that appreciation and attraction.

Then I appreciate on an almost daily basis.

 

[ryancoke71]

I think that the situation is a little different with teenagers. While it is still ultimately the male's responsibility to control himself, the teenage male years are so confusing and hormone driven, it's a lot more difficult for them to control their thoughts. I'm not putting blame on the teenage girls, but I think some of them could really help the matter by dressing more appropriately. But then again, most of these girls are just victim of society's pressure to conform to that "perfect, sexy" image. I think there likely are some teenage girls who purposely try to titilate and tease, but I think most are just trying to fit in and be "in style".

I can see your point. The teenage years are difficult overall. As the mother of an 11 year old daughter, I do have a say in how she dresses, but I am absolutely amazed with what other girls her age are wearing. It is nothing like it was when I was that age. It is downright scary sometimes. The struggle to fit in starts really young. My issue is more with the woman almost being blamed if something happens and she is dressed in a revealing manner. That isn't fair.

 

[Earnie Shavers]

Then I appreciate on an almost daily basis.

Almost daily? Are you in jail or something? I'd say almost hourly.

 

[BoMac]

Are you in jail or something?

I live with my girlfriend.

Wait...that's not what you asked, right?

 

[financeguy]

Not that it's any of your business, but no, that particular thing is not one of the sins I have committed.

Dude, this is not a confessional box.

I'm noting I haven't committed sexual sin.

Sexual 'sin'?

Sex is natural, fun and by and large, healthy. It's simple biology. Ok, there might be the odd time when it's not as much fun as other times. But, even at that, where's the 'sin' part? Sin is fun too, at times. IMO, even bad sex is better than no sex at all.

As I have plainly written in this thread, I have.
I'm certainly not proud of any of them.

You have only one life, dude.

 

[financeguy]

Out of curiosity, does anyone here believe that if a woman dresses a certain way, it is her fault that a man lusts for her? Or should the man take full responsibility for his actions rather than blame her?

I think it depends on the circumstances. Women that dress like prick-teasers and/or sluts will attract a lot of males to them, like bees to a honey-pot, but, are often not that great in the sack, in my experience.

 

[80sU2isBest]

Dude, this is not a confessional box.

You asked, and I answered truthfully. But I don't know why I answered such a rude and intrusive question.

You have only one life, dude.

I do have only one life, and I am happy and content person, lacking in my life nothing of value.

 

[maycocksean]

Out of curiosity, does anyone here believe that if a woman dresses a certain way, it is her fault that a man lusts for her? Or should the man take full responsibility for his actions rather than blame her?

I don't see any "fault" on either side.

I'm very wary of men getting involved in any kind of discussion as to what women or girls "should" wear. It stinks of sexism to me.

That said, I don't think most women really understand how most men function. I'm not sure how to explain it (I've literally started and erased several sentences trying to explain and can't seem to get it right). The way a man and a woman responds emotionally and physically to an attractive member of the opposite sex (or the same sex if gay) showing a lot of skin is very different. Not right or wrong, just different. I often find that women assume that we respond just as they do, and we don't. Or I don't anyway. Women should know that what they wear does have an impact on the men around them. Men are not "wrong" for their responses, nor are women "wrong" for what they wear. Nevertheless, as has already been discussed, what a man thinks or feels in their own thoughts is not a problem. Whether he acts inappropriately on those thoughts is, and for that he is fully reponsible. What she was wearing has no bearing on the matter.

 

[financeguy]

I do have only one life, and I am happy and content person, lacking in my life nothing of value.

Apart from shagging?

 

[80sU2isBest]

Apart from shagging?

Au contraire. One of the causes of my happiness is that I'm not having sexual relations in a context that I believe is wrong and that I don't want.

 

[maycocksean]

I think it depends on the circumstances. Women that dress like prick-teasers and/or sluts will attract a lot of males to them, like bees to a honey-pot, but, are often not that great in the sack, in my experience.

Seriously?

Just to be clear this is NOT what I meant about the reaction of men. . .

 

[financeguy]

Au contraire. One of the causes of my happiness is that I'm not having sexual relations in a context that I believe is wrong and that I don't want.

Well ok, but what about Christian dating sites? Think about it, bored and lonely Christian women, they've been saving themselves up, which means they're gagging for it, they're out there on the dating sites and they're looking for a good Christian husband - and that could be you, 80s!

Think of it - voltupuous women with child bearin hip and blow job lips that have been saving themselves up for years and years and they're so horny right now you wouldn't believe it. Thousands of them out there, waiting for a dip of ye' old spear. What are you waiting, for, dive in!

 

[Irvine511]

Au contraire. One of the causes of my happiness is that I'm not having sexual relations in a context that I believe is wrong and that I don't want.

and i think that this is what i've come to understand about you 80s, and i'm sure others, and this is where i think you're different from the majority of posters on here.

because of the role of religion in your life, it would cause you great stress to do something you believed to be wrong -- sex outside of marriage -- and that would be a greater cause of stress than it is for you to subdue your natural sexual urges. you've made a decision about the role that sex will play in your life, and you want to adhere to that decision.

i can think of many reasons why i think it is a mistake to wait for marriage, but those reasons are nothing compared to the reasons you've been given to wait by the Bible.

don't want to put words in your mouth -- is this fair?

 

[80sU2isBest]

and i think that this is what i've come to understand about you 80s, and i'm sure others, and this is where i think you're different from the majority of posters on here.

because of the role of religion in your life, it would cause you great stress to do something you believed to be wrong -- sex outside of marriage -- and that would be a greater cause of stress than it is for you to subdue your natural sexual urges. you've made a decision about the role that sex will play in your life, and you want to adhere to that decision.

i can think of many reasons why i think it is a mistake to wait for marriage, but those reasons are nothing compared to the reasons you've been given to wait by the Bible.

don't want to put words in your mouth -- is this fair?

Very fair, and very respectful and very nice.

But truth is, I know i won't be getting married, so it's not really a "wait" decision.